Bashiok Elaborates on No-Flying in WoD

[Kailith]

Only thing I took from this is that they still don't know if they'll have flying later or not.

[Azrile]

I am glad they are reaffirming their decision. Like most people in this thread, I am happy they are delaying it even further. Hopefully we will get to a point where flying is a ´last expansion´ thing.

[Zenotetsuken]

You should really stop paying for an MMORPG then.

Oh I haven't payed for WoW in 6 months. No point in continuing to pay for something that no longer provides the service that you bought it for. I was just hopeful that they would re-evaluate their stance, but with all of the MMOs coming out soon they will no longer be the only show in town for raiding.

[Skillslam]

The more paragraphs you use in your rambling, the more right you must be

[Rutger]

I am glad they are reaffirming their decision. Like most people in this thread, I am happy they are delaying it even further. Hopefully we will get to a point where flying is a ´last expansion´ thing.

Why not go and play a game without the features this one has, instead of demanding they take it out to please you?

[Barkloud]

I will condense the comments for you.

Blizzard loves you, we really do, but flying is gone, we know you cannot handle that right now, so maybe it will be back, but seriously, flying is gone.

[Austilias]

with all of the MMOs coming out soon they will no longer be the only show in town for raiding.

If I had a dime for every time i've heard that.

[Celista]

This is a big part of what I can't stand about questing in the first place, let alone not having flying.

"As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success."

All of that bullshit to kill 1 guy. Does it being described as RP make it somehow NOT a pointless time waste?

Here it is in non-RP. You get a quest to kill the leader, go there, kill guards, then packs of sentries, then some magic wielding enemies, then the boss, then as you try to get out to turn in your quest you fight more guards. (and more than likely respawns) To me that is a WHOLE LOT of pointless crap to kill A SINGLE GUY.

I agree and this is why I rolled characters that can stealth back in the day

Honestly I haven't heard any solid arguments for flight removal. I'd love a world twice the size of Northrend as a tradeoff for lack of flight (since they can save development costs by not finishing a world for flight, much like the way EK/Kalimdor were unfinished until Cata and BE/Draenei zones remain currently), but I'm not seeing that happening. I'm only seeing minuses here, and yes I've been to Thunder Isle/Timeless Isle/Isle of Giants. It wasn't all that exciting.

[Deleted]

Here it is in non-RP. You get a quest to kill the leader, go there, kill guards, then packs of sentries, then some magic wielding enemies, then the boss, then as you try to get out to turn in your quest you fight more guards. (and more than likely respawns) To me that is a WHOLE LOT of pointless crap to kill A SINGLE GUY.

Uh... IMHO most quests/dungeons/raids/tiers/expansions are about killing "a single guy", except that you can't do it right away, but you have to walk your way through secondary objectives.

A few rethoric questions: would you replace all of WotLK with just the lich king? Was everything else just "pointless crap" slowing you in your quest against the lich king?

I do agree however that Bashiok's RP is a bit excessive here. But he has a point: if players can skip everything and reach the final objective immediately, it hard to design a good quest. You have to put objectives in caves, or inside buildings, or very close to other mobs which will be aggro'ed. Otherwise, it pointless to design paths, mob packs, etc. in the zone before the objective. Mobs make the quest longer, but also allow the designer to provide more reward (XP, better gear, ...) in return.

[Sunseeker]

For classes that have "escape mechanics", being stuck on the ground is nice, because you can actually do the things that he's talking about. For classes without, it's just an increased pain in the ass as rapidly-respawning mobs swawm us.

I don't know about the rest of you, but after I hit max level, my desire to quest basically dies. Questing is a means to an end, that end, is level 100. Aside from Cataclysm, flying was never available until later levels, and usually max level. I don't complete zones, I don't daily. After I reach 100, I have no desire to have my gameplay limited on the basis of people who enjoy doing those things. Your gameplay is not affected by the fact that I don't participate in your gameplay, so being restricted to your preferred gameplay mode has no benefit for me.

[Rutger]

Uh... IMHO most quests/dungeons/raids/tiers/expansions are about killing "a single guy", except that you can't do it right away, but you have to walk your way through secondary objectives.

A few rethoric questions: would you replace all of WotLK with just the lich king? Was everything else just "pointless crap" slowing you in your quest against the lich king?

I do agree however that Bashiok's RP is a bit excessive here. But he has a point: if players can skip everything and reach the final objective immediately, it hard to design a good quest. You have to put objectives in caves, or inside buildings, or very close to other mobs which will be aggro'ed. Otherwise, it pointless to design paths, mob packs, etc. in the zone before the objective. Mobs make the quest longer, but also allow the designer to provide more reward (XP, better gear, ...) in return.

yeah, demanding a consistent and coordinated enemy from a designer is way to much work. Lets make sure we have to kill every bunny in front of the enemies hut.

[Wrathonia]

This all amounts to them wanting us to quest even at max level. I hate questing and avoid it as much as possible. I don't want to quest at max level. I want to freely explore and do dungeons. Not having flight directly opposes my freedom. I don't give a crap about quests at max level. So I just want buy the expansion or resub. GG.

[Granyala]

how many of us have done the Tillers dailies up on the cliffside where the Hozen are, and waited for packs to pass by before setting down right where you’re supposed to, use whatever thingamabob you’re supposed to, and then lift off ASAP hoping-hoping-hoping nothing aggros? How many of us have become furious when we actually have to fight something!?

Guilty as charged, but the same applies to ground mounts.
The problem is not flying, the problem is boring & useless outdoor combat.

If combat was fun & properly rewarding (Xp), people wouldn't want to skip it at all costs.

But right now: Every mob I have to kill that is not associated to a quest only slows me down. I can see how people that hate questing are annoyed by that.

Bottom line: while it surely is an annoying change, my guess would be that we'll be just fine w/o flying.

[Ghostile]

This is a big part of what I can't stand about questing in the first place, let alone not having flying.

"As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success."

All of that bullshit to kill 1 guy. Does it being described as RP make it somehow NOT a pointless time waste?

Here it is in non-RP. You get a quest to kill the leader, go there, kill guards, then packs of sentries, then some magic wielding enemies, then the boss, then as you try to get out to turn in your quest you fight more guards. (and more than likely respawns) To me that is a WHOLE LOT of pointless crap to kill A SINGLE GUY.

I think MMORPG might be a wrong genre for you.

[Azrile]

Oh I haven't payed for WoW in 6 months. No point in continuing to pay for something that no longer provides the service that you bought it for. I was just hopeful that they would re-evaluate their stance, but with all of the MMOs coming out soon they will no longer be the only show in town for raiding.

yes, because this is the first year that there were other MMORPGs that were launched.....

[Bathory]

Good lord, maybe he needs to make his next post in crayon since this is STILL too complicated for people to understand.

[Azrile]

Why not go and play a game without the features this one has, instead of demanding they take it out to please you?

I am not demanding they take it out. I am just happy that they are realizing it makes the gameplay less compelling. They made the decision, I am just voicing my support of it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Good post.

People who just want instant gratification will insult it though, instead of respectfully disagreeing. Typical.

[Pann]

If I had a dime for every time i've heard that.

You would have? What? Three? Maybe, four dollars?

[DarkArchon]

how many of us have done the Tillers dailies up on the cliffside where the Hozen are, and waited for packs to pass by before setting down right where you’re supposed to, use whatever thingamabob you’re supposed to, and then lift off ASAP hoping-hoping-hoping nothing aggros? How many of us have become furious when we actually have to fight something!?

Guilty as charged, but the same applies to ground mounts.
The problem is not flying, the problem is boring & useless outdoor combat.

If combat was fun & properly rewarding (Xp), people wouldn't want to skip it at all costs.

But right now: Every mob I have to kill that is not associated to a quest only slows me down. I can see how people that hate questing are annoyed by that.

Bottom line: while it surely is an annoying change, my guess would be that we'll be just fine w/o flying.

They need to have mobs be associated with leveling with factions and progression drops of all kinds like in BC. Bring back thew Sunfury rings, Fel armaments, Mark of Sargeras and have them not be BOE so people can farm for gold too if they want.