[TV] Gotham

[Stormcall]

Coming from someone who's not a fan of comics nor do I read any:
I enjoyed Fantastic Four movies, Batman 2k movies, Arrow (TV) and Superman Returns tremendously.
On the other hand, last year's Superman, Avengers and the other recent Marvel movies, I found unappealing, over the top, cheesy and unrealistic.

You thought that Avengers, pretty much the best possible adaptation of that comic team, over the top, cheesy, and unrealistic, and in the sentence JUST before that you say you enjoyed that Fantastic Four movies? You DO realize that is pretty much the same thing as saying you hate meat and that your favorite food is sirloin steak, right?

[Gallahadd]

Can't help but feel like their trying to milk the current superhero hype, like ABC's 'Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D'.

But it does look really good and I'll more than likely check it out. I don't read the comics, but I've always enjoyed the character of Commission Gordan. So it'll be nice to learn more about his background, as well as the beginnings of some of Gotham's most infamous villains.

To be fair, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is pretty good :P, it's not just an attempt to milk the super hero hype, it's a canon part of the MCU, it actually ties it pretty well with Thor 2 and Captain America 2, and Joss Whedon has said the connections between the movies and series are going to keep going.

As for all the badguys turning up in Gotham. I think it's a great idea, it doesn't diminish Batman at all, because they will be "pre" versions, showing HOW they gained the powers and abilities they will have later on, when Batman takes them on, which I think is a very cool idea. It also (hopefully)allows them to showcase some of the lesser known batman enemies, that are cool, but not well known enough to be in the movies.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Should be interesting to say the least. Why people have to be so cynical all the damn time is beyond me.

[Vargur]

You thought that Avengers, pretty much the best possible adaptation of that comic team, over the top, cheesy, and unrealistic, and in the sentence JUST before that you say you enjoyed that Fantastic Four movies? You DO realize that is pretty much the same thing as saying you hate meat and that your favorite food is sirloin steak, right?

I didn't like Avengers, I liked F4. Much simpler now, for you.

[Halicia]

Should be interesting to say the least. Why people have to be so cynical all the damn time is beyond me.

With this show, I have a couple reasons to be cynical.

#1. Its Fox. Even if it doesnt get cancelled after 4 episodes, it'll prolly just be a copy/paste of something from 'the WB'. If HBO, Showtime, or AMC had picked this up, zomg... could you imagine the nerdscreams of joy ?

#2. This really sounds like a reboot of Smallville.

#3. It also reeks of being jumping on the bandwagon. Superhero movies are popular now! Batman is popular! lets make an angsty teen drama of batman as a kid! He can even sparkle like a vampire!

I mean, I'll prolly watch a few episodes of it... but I don't expect it to be anything except my 'bedtime hulu queue' to fall asleep to.

Personally, I think I'd rather see a post-batman Gotham series. Either with him dying early on, or in an Alfred 'advisory role'.

[Deleted]

Not really sure about this, but I'll give it a watch before passing my judgement on it.

[s_bushido]

Nothing about the trailer really grabs me.

It's one thing to jump from a child Bruce Wayne being devastated by the death of his parents, to a young adult Bruce Wayne still obsessed enough to put on a bat costume. Because you don't have much time to think about what it would be like for him growing. But you'd think, in all that time, and especially with the support of someone like a (seemingly) dedicated young police officer, he would have been able to deal with his demons... So, I don't know. It seems to undermine the character a bit.

But who knows, maybe I'm totally off base.


Oh...and I'll be so glad when trailers no longe-BWAAAAAH!!!! Seriously...fuck you Zimmer (or whichever bastard working in Inception's sound department came up with that noise).

[Stormcall]

I didn't like Avengers, I liked F4. Much simpler now, for you.

Liking the FF is fine. But the EXACT SAME THINGS you said you disliked about Avengers are present in the FF movies ten times over.

[Gallahadd]

#3. It also reeks of being jumping on the bandwagon. Superhero movies are popular now! Batman is popular! lets make an angsty teen drama of batman as a kid! He can even sparkle like a vampire!

You realise this show isn't about Batman right? Batman's a tiny kid and will only be in it as a child and plot device, the main character is a young Detective Gordon. It's going to be a crime/detective drama not a smallville style super hero drama *cough*soap opera*cough*

[mordale]

anyone else notice that the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne are a bit... rushed?

it doesn't seem like a simple robbery gone wrong which was one of the fucking cornerstones of the mythos.
it was shit stupid when nolan changed it too.

the idea that bruce lost his parent not to a hit or assassination but instead to a random crime was a entegril point to the whole fucking story.

the idea that what happened to him WASN'T special, that it was just so much bad luck that he contributed to.
that guilt is part of what makes him batman as the vigilante and that acceptance is what later drives him when he becomes batman the hero.

not only that if you look at the major batman villains who reflect some aspect of him, they all become villains after "one bad day".

one bad day where a scientist fell into a vat of cryogenic chemicals while trying to save his wife from a terminal illness.
one bad day where the lines between justice and cruelty were shattered by chance.
one bad day where a man in a red hood so horrified leaned on a weak railing and fell into a vat of acid.

the entire idea that bad things happen and theres very rarely a reason isn't just a thing that fuels batman in his mission to bring justice to an un-just world.

but it also is the entire motivation for the Joker.
life is the joke and death is the punch-line.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

anyone else notice that the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne are a bit... rushed?

it doesn't seem like a simple robbery gone wrong which was one of the fucking cornerstones of the mythos.
it was shit stupid when nolan changed it too.

the idea that bruce lost his parent not to a hit or assassination but instead to a random crime was a entegril point to the whole fucking story.

the idea that what happened to him WASN'T special, that it was just so much bad luck that he contributed to.
that guilt is part of what makes him batman as the vigilante and that acceptance is what later drives him when he becomes batman the hero.

not only that if you look at the major batman villains who reflect some aspect of him, they all become villains after "one bad day".

one bad day where a scientist fell into a vat of cryogenic chemicals while trying to save his wife from a terminal illness.
one bad day where the lines between justice and cruelty were shattered by chance.
one bad day where a man in a red hood so horrified leaned on a weak railing and fell into a vat of acid.

the entire idea that bad things happen and theres very rarely a reason isn't just a thing that fuels batman in his mission to bring justice to an un-just world.

but it also is the entire motivation for the Joker.
life is the joke and death is the punch-line.

It's more of a prequel then being about Batman.

[mordale]

It's more of a prequel then being about Batman.

thus why i said "cornerstone of the mythos".
the idea extends beyond just Batman is in case you forgot what mythos means.

gotham and its people grew around batman using the same concept of "bad things happen to anybody for no reason" that was the basis for batman's motivation.

so what happens if you change the cornerstone of something?
at worst it all comes crashing down or at best it buckles and becomes weaker, see the nolan batman films.

[Svifnymr]

It's more of a prequel then being about Batman.

The thing is, how bound they might be to the batman history, and even what version it might be.

I mean, Gordon can't take a young Bruce under his wing and give him closure. He can't solve the crime and bring the criminal to justice. Young Bruce is probably a nod to the fans. By the same token, young Ivy is nobody. You might see her in passing and the fans can go "OMG! That will be poison ivy!" but you can't origin story her. Riddler? He's nobody for decades.

So yeah, it might be a good series but it can't draw on too much of the Batman mythos without rewriting it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

thus why i said "cornerstone of the mythos".
the idea extends beyond just Batman is in case you forgot what mythos means.

gotham and its people grew around batman using the same concept of "bad things happen to anybody for no reason" that was the basis for batman's motivation.

so what happens if you change the cornerstone of something?
at worst it all comes crashing down or at best it buckles and becomes weaker, see the nolan batman films.

Nolan films weren't that bad though. They were good but not ideal and you're refererncing stuff mostly related to the Killing Joke and hardly anything related to the rest. I also think they'll follow the mythos but adjust it slightly(Like Smallville for obvious reasons meeting some of his villains before he's known as Superman).

[mordale]

Nolan films weren't that bad though. They were good but not ideal and you're refererncing stuff mostly related to the Killing Joke and hardly anything related to the rest. I also think they'll follow the mythos but adjust it slightly(Like Smallville for obvious reasons meeting some of his villains before he's known as Superman).

B: argueable.


U: and that turned out so well...
the only villain he met as a teen should of been Lex Luthor, who was a childhood friend of Clark Kent's in some versions of the story.
which adds a sort of twisted irony to Lex in that the only "normal person" he considers a friend was also his most hated enemy.
and a sort of sad hope to Superman to have the friend that still exists somewhere in Lex to somehow come back.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

B: argueable.


U: and that turned out so well...
the only villain he met as a teen should of been Lex Luthor, who was a childhood friend of Clark Kent's in some versions of the story.
which adds a sort of twisted irony to Lex in that the only "normal person" he considers a friend was also his most hated enemy.
and a sort of sad hope to Superman to have the friend that still exists somewhere in Lex to somehow come back.

Worked pretty well for a lot of people. Besides Smallville didn'tt really rewrite the mythos. They took things from the mythos and put it in the smallville universe. I wouldn't be surprised if they did that with Gotham. Unless anyone has better ideas(I don't and I don't know the full premise from just a trailer).

[TidesOfBlood]

Worked pretty well for a lot of people. Besides Smallville didn'tt really rewrite the mythos. They took things from the mythos and put it in the smallville universe. I wouldn't be surprised if they did that with Gotham. Unless anyone has better ideas(I don't and I don't know the full premise from just a trailer).

I thought they did. I could be misunderstanding what you two are talking about when you two say mythos but I thought they took some superheroes and made them teens and made it look like they all met for the first time before clark became superman. I know they did this with the Flash.

Like Mormorlyce was saying

By necessity these kinds of stories wind up implying that everyone in the main fiction met when they were 5. Which is silly.

I kinda dont like that. I mean dont get me wrong, the trailer looks cool and seeing how the villains came to be is a pretty neat idea, I just would not like it if they took the smallville approach.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I kinda dont like that. I mean dont get me wrong, the trailer looks cool and seeing how the villains came to be is a pretty neat idea, I just would not like it if they took the smallville appraoch.

He was referring to the main continuity. Batman's parents are killed he adopts Dick Greyson etc etc. Basically everything about Batman in the comic universe or whatever is canon.

[TidesOfBlood]

He was referring to the main continuity. Batman's parents are killed he adopts Dick Greyson etc etc. Basically everything about Batman in the comic universe or whatever is canon.

Ohhhh okay. I see. Well as long as its not the new 52. I just watched the new justice league: war, then i am okay.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Ohhhh okay. I see. Well as long as its not the new 52. I just watched the new justice league: war, then i am okay.

So I hear. guess DC is running low on ideas but that's another thread.