Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Haven]

Because they are untrained scum, with the occasional Russian "professional" """"tourists"""" thrown in. Untrained rebels make mistakes.

Mistakes. Mistakenly shelling a city. Which is miles away from Ukrainian army positions. In a different direction. This is a stretch. By kilometers. Brother Occam suggests it's a provocation.

[Shalcker]

Because they are untrained scum, with the occasional Russian "professional" """"tourists"""" thrown in. Untrained rebels make mistakes.

What I'm saying is that determining the weapon that was used can tell pretty much who even had the capability to do it.

Rebels are constantly catching various Ukrainian armed groups covertly operating on their territory. Setting up mortar takes minutes, a few shots then you drive away.

Attribution is impossible in cases like this.

[Crispin]

Rebels are constantly catching various Ukrainian armed groups covertly operating on their territory. Setting up mortar takes minutes, a few shots then you drive away.

Attribution is impossible in cases like this.

hahaha, c'mon you can't be that naive?

[Shalcker]

hahaha, c'mon you can't be that naive?

What, do you think Western Ukrainians/rightwingers are not honoring memory of their forefathers by engaging in diversionary/guerrilla tactics?

Or you think rebels have complete control of entire area and check every car passing through?

It's plausible and it was reported to be happening before. What exactly do you think is wrong with this assumption?

In that particular case it's mortar, not GRAD or artillery shell, you can drive those in the back of your car.

[Deleted]

So you are more inclined to think Ukrainian military deliberately used artillery just to kill civilians 14km away from the airport?

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Since you revealed your trust in Brother Occam, would you like to offer your opinion on who shelled Mariupol on saturday killing over 20 civilians?

That's not the point I'm making at all. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty in your biased judgement. That's all.

[Deleted]

So you say that the Donetsk Kuprina street incident was caused by mortar, not artillery?

In that case the mortar had to be within this area to do the shelling:



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I'm perfectly willing to accept the truth if the evidence points at Ukrainian artillery as the source of the fire.

However, unlike you, I like to base my judgement on cold hard facts, and not just feels.

Is that why you posted that "ukrainewar" blog link? Ahahah
REAL hard facts there Gabriel. Make sure you keep those "feels" of yours away from your judgement.
Otherwise you might end up justifying the indefensible... like Kiev stopping wages of doctors in rebel held territories.

[Megraam]

Ohh well, since you refuse to understand the grammatical structure of English language to further your conspiracy theories, it's quite clear what you actually are. Have fun cooking up your conspiracy theories.

Oh this is some expert level of handwaving, Gabriel. You were engaged in a discussion, resorted to 3rd party help, thought it is going to prove your point and were so deep in your delusions so you've failed to see her statement actually contradicts your point. So you have decided to whine lalalalalala I don't hear anything english language blahblah, the usual chant of team maidanites: this is especially rich coming from a person with a "English is not my first tongue" statement.

Feel yourself free to live in your little own delusional world where evil putin is going to kill democracy riding on a bear, just don't try to drag others into it.

[Elim Garak]

Feel yourself free to live in your little own delusional world where evil putin is going to kill democracy riding on a bear, just don't try to drag others into it.

It's called Finland, ex-Russian territory. He is scared shitless.

[Megraam]

It's called Finland, ex-Russian territory. He is scared shitless.

Isn't he a swed though?

Since you can't discuss the evidence itself without getting proven wrong time and time again, you just fall back on yet another "feels" argument. Great job Djalil.



So statements from OSCE are not valid anymore? What is left? Russian and Ukrainian governmental agencies? But ohh wait! Ukrainian government is full of Nazis and illegitimate people, so that leaves only Russian Federation Agencies that alone are reliable?

Is that seriously what you are saying?

Seriously?

Really?

For real?

Honestly?

Truly?

Hahaha you still don't get it? OSCE is reliable and valid. When they do not have exact proven information, they do not post it. This is why they haven't written rebels controlled area where fire came from WHEN firing occured in their report. This is why even when you've asked a representative a direct question about it, she avoided your question, despite you've bolded the currently part or something similar.
This is exactly why:
1. OSCE is valid.
2. OSCE doesn't have a proof area from which firing occured was controlled by rebels WHEN FIRING HAS TAKEN PLACE.
3. You've failed to prove this either and this is the only thing you were asked to prove besides actual firing place.

Damn gabriel you had one job.

[Deleted]

Since you can't discuss the evidence itself without getting proven wrong time and time again, you just fall back on yet another "feels" argument. Great job Djalil.



So statements from OSCE are not valid anymore? What is left? Russian and Ukrainian governmental agencies? But ohh wait! Ukrainian government is full of Nazis and illegitimate people, so that leaves only Russian Federation Agencies that alone are reliable?

Is that seriously what you are saying?

Seriously?

Really?

For real?

Honestly?

Truly?

Today in mmo: saying evidence make it so.
Next issue: how to not think.

[Tierbook]

Looking at currency exchange rates:
Euro is up 1.12 to the dollar, a bit of an oddity considering Greece the other day

Rouble, is 65.72 to the dollar, just shy of the record high of 68.

[Deleted]

Looking at currency exchange rates:
Euro is up 1.12 to the dollar, a bit of an oddity considering Greece the other day

Rouble, is 65.72 to the dollar, just shy of the record high of 68.

Its very likely that it was factored in the cource for some time since they had polls at hand.

[Tierbook]

Its very likely that it was factored in the cource for some time since they had polls at hand.

Possibly, the value may have gone up simply because Syriza didn't get a true majority, also an independent Tatar station in Crimea was shut down
http://abcnews.go.com/International/...orces-28483162

[Shalcker]

Rouble, is 65.72 to the dollar, just shy of the record high of 68.

It was basically flat around 65 for entire last week, no reason to think this movement is significant yet.

[Rukentuts]

It was basically flat around 65 for entire last week, no reason to think this movement is significant yet.

Indeed, it's not like the trend YTD is still up by double digits or anything or that it's lost 3% again today, right Bob?

[Shalcker]

Indeed, it's not like the trend YTD is still up by double digits or anything or that it's lost 3% again today, right Bob?

Ruky, trend follows oil in reverse, and oil had made modest gains today - which would mean rouble has to strengthen.

[Rukentuts]

Ruky, trend follows oil in reverse, and oil had made modest gains today - which would mean rouble has to strengthen.

Then why did the rouble lose 3%? You literally have no idea what you're even talking about.

[Deleted]

This stumped me as well. How did they determine it so quickly and accurately? They've never done something like that before, to the best of my knowledge.

Why not? Tracing back Artillery Fire is often taught for the purpose of Counter Battery Fire. Sound Ranging for example has been around since WW1 and reguires very little equipment(Microphones and a stop watch for very basic measuring). More then likely, they have modern equipment such as HALO or something similiar that would be even more accurate.

[ringpriest]

US and Europe ‘ratcheting up pressure’ after phone call reveals Russia behind Mariupol massacre

http://www.news.com.au/world/us-and-...-1227196640527

Has the government in Kiev released their evidence? The HRW and observers conclusion on where the missiles were fired from seems pretty solid, but the government of Ukraine has made a lot of sourceless accusations, claiming they've got evidence, but never getting around to producing it.

[Deleted]

Has the government in Kiev released their evidence? The HRW and observers conclusion on where the missiles were fired from seems pretty solid, but the government of Ukraine has made a lot of sourceless accusations, claiming they've got evidence, but never getting around to producing it.

Who needs evidence when you have ideologies.