Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Tackhisis]

Ukrainian

There is no 'Ukrainian' anything. Ukraine is a mélange of different national and cultural groups. Attempts to create a national state in the administrative borders of UkSSR will never succeed.

[Deleted]

That's oppression by majority. I thought you don't agree with that one.

Then you're wrong. I like democracy. Why would you need to use violence to get your point across?

[Kellhound]

There is no 'Ukrainian' anything. Ukraine is a mélange of different national and cultural groups. Attempts to create a national state in the administrative borders of UkSSR will never succeed.

There is a Ukrainian STATE, which is all that matters. Nations are obsolete and too mixed to be a valid means to draw political lines.

[Crispin]

Its not Ukraine after Russia annexes Ukraine. So if they want to be Ukrainian they can just pack up and go fuck themselves.

You seem to think that Russia can invade whatever they want, simply because you've been lead to belive that it's nothing but a bunch of Nazi's, and here I thought that Russia had moved on from the cold war rhetoric, apparently the west is far ahead of Russia in more than one way.

I'm not sure why you'd think Russia would "annex" Ukraine, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen, sorry.

[Deleted]

Hmmm, well I looked at every map I can, and it all shows it as Ukraine. Nationality is an obsolete concept of the narrow weak minded, States are the reality of the world today.

"Self-governance is thing of the past"

Then you're wrong. I like democracy. Why would you need to use violence to get your point across?

So you agree with the pure democracy? Tyranny of the majority? Minorities have to ask others what to do?

[Crispin]

There is no 'Ukrainian' anything. Ukraine is a mélange of different national and cultural groups. Attempts to create a national state in the administrative borders of UkSSR will never succeed.

Russia is also a melange of different national and cultural groups, does that mean that there is no Russian? Russia does not decide wether Ukraine is a country or not, or where the borders are drawn.

[Ravenblade]

No, it isn't Ukraine. Some people took Kiev, some people took other regions. Now Kiev claims that everything is theirs. It isn't. They can go back to Kiev and hope that there won't be any consequences for what they've done.

So it's still about partitioning Ukraine, is that their goal? Then we are back to before: Ukraine then simply does not exist. You would be back to a construct called Greater Galicia with former areas of northern Bukovina and east Volhynia included. Question is who gets Kiev and what will the Russian-dominated remnant be called? Novorossiya? Greater Dwarf Republics of Donbass and Kiev - if Kiev doesn't decide to become a city state of its own?

So you agree with the pure democracy? Tyranny of the majority? Minorities have to ask others what to do?

What defines as minority depends on the circumstances. Sometimes a simple majority is enough, for important issues an absolute minority is enough. There are rules defining it. It's not tyranny if everyone agrees with the outcome. I have not voted conservative in last elections, therefore I am minority, but I don't feel oppressed by conservatives because in the same turn conservatives who won strengthened the power of the opposition. They still get some government posts and get to have a say even if it's the swaying power of their rhetorics. See this is the problem, they don't want to agree that they may lose and want win their case with a simple majority which they won't necessarily get either because people are simply not that dead-set on the issue of secession/separatism. They may not agree with Kiev's decisions either but doesn't mean they are okay with the alternative as well.

[mmokri]

I'm not sure why you'd think Russia would "annex" Ukraine, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen, sorry.

So Russians could become majority and implement democracy there lol. With nazi drive bys. (Just example of dumbass logic of posters).

[Crispin]

"Self-governance is thing of the past"



So you agree with the pure democracy? Tyranny of the majority? Minorities have to ask others what to do?

who said anything about Tyranny? do you seriously belive that the minority who does not get their candidates elected are shit on in a democracy? the elected are a goverment for the country, and not only the ones that voted for them, but apparently that's how you think democracy works.

[Deleted]

So it's still about partitioning Ukraine, is that their goal? Then we are back to before: Ukraine then simply does not exist. You would be back to a construct called Greater Galicia with former areas of northern Bukovina and east Volhynia included. Question is who gets Kiev and what will the Russian-dominated remnant be called? Novorossiya? Greater Dwarf Republics of Donbass and Kiev - if Kiev doesn't decide to become a city state of its own?

Kiev decided to not talk with them. If they want to talk to themselves, yes, they're free to re-create their Galicia. Novorossiya already exists.

[Crispin]

So Russians could become majority and implement democracy there lol. With nazi drive bys. (Just example of dumbass logic of posters).

Just like China are doing with Siberia?

[Deleted]

So you agree with the pure democracy? Tyranny of the majority? Minorities have to ask others what to do?

The only thing that is stronger than democracy are human rights. If a majority want autonomy for Donetsk then the minority should either work for convincing people that Donetsk autonomy is a bad idea, or suck it up.

[anonm111]

i agree 100%

[Tackhisis]

Russia is a federal state of federal citizens, which is a supernational concept. Ukraine is a unitarian state whose its new coup-d'êtat government sees as a nationalistic state, too.

[Deleted]

who said anything about Tyranny? do you seriously belive that the minority who does not get their candidates elected are shit on in a democracy? the elected are a goverment for the country, and not only the ones that voted for them, but apparently that's how you think democracy works.

If they are DENIED their governance. Because they are.

The only thing that is stronger than democracy are human rights. If a majority want autonomy for Donetsk then the minority should either work for convincing people that Donetsk autonomy is a bad idea, or suck it up.

If majority of people in Donetsk want to create their own state together with Luhansk, are they free to do so?

[mmokri]

If majority of people in Donetsk want to create their own state together with Luhansk, are they free to do so?

LoL did you forgot west hypocrisy? Whenever USA profits its legit. Whenever USA does not profit its not legit.

[Shalcker]

LoL did you forgot west hypocrisy? Whenever I profit its legit. Whenever I dont profit its not legit.

You're making them too cynic! Obviously it's "When we don't profit we question everything, and assume it's fraud by default! When we do profit we do not question anything, and assume everything is legit by default!"

Give it a few years and they'll accept reality, like it happened with Georgia.

[mmokri]

like it happened with Georgia.

Accepted? Georgia was invaded under phony pretexts.

Georgia shelled minorities? Is it RT source? Haha you are putin bot.

[Crispin]

I enjoy this Russian idea of rejecting reality and replacing it with your own, and ofcourse blame the US for everything, your govt sure did educate you well.

[Deleted]

If majority of people in Donetsk want to create their own state together with Luhansk, are they free to do so?

With the consent of the Ukrainian state, yes. Splitting off from another country isn't as easy as simply declaring independence. Ukraine is still economically dependent on this Novorossiya republic and would most likely want to become more economically independent before throwing away Novorossiya.