Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Baneth]

Here you're assuming that Germans are lying; that's not what i do at all.
Both rebels and Ukrainians lying about state of rebel BUKs is unlikely; rebels had vested interest in claiming they have working one if they had to dissuade air attacks (which still happened at the time of MH17 downing), yet they didn't. Which leaves possibility that rebels got to other Ukrainian base and used BUK from there, while Ukrainians covered that up.

I wasn't assuming anything. I was twisting your words to suit my needs/goals, in an imitation of what you did and are continuing to do.

Germany says Russian backed rebels shot down the plane, not the Ukrainian army. Yet, you are claiming the opposite of what the German intelligence agency is saying; by twisting a single sentence out of the entire body of the the article.

Germany says it was Russian backed rebels, not Ukrainian army. Don't twist words around to suit your beliefs.

[Cybran]

My own eyes can tell me it was likely launched from rebel areas....

Until you provide satellite pictures of the BUK that fired the rocket and it's crew (which have been claimed to exist since July) you don't know anything.

[Kellhound]

Until you provide satellite pictures of the BUK that fired the rocket and it's crew (which have been claimed to exist since July) you don't know anything.

I know the damage was heaviest in the nose section, the blast damage appears to go front to rear, the SA-11 has a proximity fuse, impact point would have had to be even with or in front of the launcher, with a much higher likelihood of a just off the nose launch point.

[Cybran]

I know the damage was heaviest in the nose section, the blast damage appears to go front to rear, the SA-11 has a proximity fuse, impact point would have had to be even with or in front of the launcher, with a much higher likelihood of a just off the nose launch point.

Who shot it? Names and addresses?

[Kellhound]

Who shot it? Names and addresses?

Yes, we all know Ukraine brought an unarmored SAM system into Rebel held territory, fired at an airliner, and brought it back out without being caught just to frame the rebels....

[Cybran]

Yes, we all know Ukraine brought an unarmored SAM system into Rebel held territory, fired at an airliner, and brought it back out without being caught just to frame the rebels....

So you don't know who did it?

[Kellhound]

So you don't know who did it?

Other than rebel or Russian, no. Ukrainian units would have not been in the correct location based on the damage to the plane.

[Rukentuts]

Until you provide satellite pictures of the BUK that fired the rocket and it's crew (which have been claimed to exist since July) you don't know anything.

Isn't the excuse once the West provides images that they're from a video game anyway?

[Marcellus1986]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...fc2_story.html



The West has been lying from the start. Why should we believe them now? They still haven't offered a shred of evidence. They simply moved goal posts.

You are the absolute LAST person who should be talking about moving goalposts.

[Shalcker]

The most perpelxing thing about this whol sordid affair is that if Russians so despised NATO they wanted to destroy it, the best way to go about it would be to undermine the need for NATO by being on their best behavior ever as the alliance, soon to be out of Afghanistan would have had no mission.

Except we did it pretty much for entire 2000-2008 and it only resulted in more NATO expansion. Clearly this strategy was already tried and failed; you should really know better.

What we've seen this year though is that Russians don't actually care about winning actual battles or building actual strength or accumulating actual victories. They're all about the show and about the gesture.

You mean like US air bombings of ISIS that do not actually accomplish anything without boots on the ground?

I also see that you throw "catastrophe" around a lot; clearly you have no idea how catastrophe actually looks like.

[Kellhound]

Except we did it pretty much for entire 2000-2008 and it only resulted in more NATO expansion. Clearly this strategy was already tried and failed; you should really know better.

You mean like US air bombings of ISIS that do not actually accomplish anything without boots on the ground?

I also see that you throw "catastrophe" around a lot; clearly you have no idea how catastrophe actually looks like.

AKA, Russia failed to convince those countries that had been under the boot of the USSR that Russia was not a threat.

[Skroe]

Except we did it pretty much for entire 2000-2008 and it only resulted in more NATO expansion. Clearly this strategy was already tried and failed; you should really know better.

Because clearly NATO was going to dissolve itself while it was fighting in Afghanistan as leaders of ISAF there.

Well congratulations, you're responsible for a 25 year life extension policy. That's on you.

But you also entirely failed to convince your neighbors you were no longer a threat.

You mean like US air bombings of ISIS that do not actually accomplish anything without boots on the ground?

1. Be patient.
2. The ISIS campaign is only designed to contain them, in and around Syria, and push them out of Iraq as much as possible. That latter effort is making some headway.

But hey, that's not an US Government thing. That's a Team Barack Obama and his True Believers thing. The US Military wanted to put special forces in Syria from day one. I'll quote my Army buddy here: "send us into Syria with loose rules of engagement and we'll take care of it".

The scale of rejection of Obama's failed foreign policy the last 18 months in this country is pretty incredible. The next President, Democrat or Republican, will be more hawkish, more interventionist and in every way a rejection of Obama's second term.

I was pretty happy with Obama's foreign policy the first term. That's why I voted for him again. What I got instead was careful strength building replaced with innaction because the adults (Clinton, Gates, Panetta, Donilon) who kept the True Believers's instincts in check, had left the building.

You see. That's accountability. Obama is dismally unpopular now. Why? Because Americans saw what his policies got us, and we're not happy with the situation.

I also see that you throw "catastrophe" around a lot; clearly you have no idea how catastrophe actually looks like.

I do. I lived through plenty of times where our leaders had bad policies. I then saw democracy force a course correction.

So you have two problems: you have a leadership which engages in catastrophic policy after catastrophic policy, and then no democracy to hold him accountable.

[Shalcker]

I do. I lived through plenty of times where our leaders had bad policies. I then saw democracy force a course correction.

There is distinct difference between bad policy (which leads to bad) and catastrophic policy (which leads to actual catastrophe respectively).

Late USSR was catastrophic; now it's simply bad in worst case, something that is quite manageable.

So you have two problems: you have a leadership which engages in catastrophic policy after catastrophic policy, and then no democracy to hold him accountable.

US goes from catastrophe to catastrophe as well in that case; democracy is clearly not helping.

[Deleted]

Looks like Germany is also blaming the Russian backed/armed rebels for the MH17 crash as well.

I can't help feeling the Germans are being kind to Russia here with their euphemisms about "Russian backed rebels". I don't see the Russians giving Ukrainian rebels a toy like the BUK without supervision. If they were "rebels", they were Russian citizens with Russian military training like Strelkov. But more likely, they were serving Russian military. (Like the green men in Crimea and the mechanised battalions that invaded Donbass to save the rebels in August.)

[Ulmita]

Good ol' Skroe with the Russia is dieing preach. He reminds me those guys you see in the street with the big posters that Jesus is coming and how we should repent to save our souls etc.

Gotta love him <3

[Ausr]

Good ol' Skroe with the Russia is dieing preach. He reminds me those guys you see in the street with the big posters that Jesus is coming and how we should repent to save our souls etc.

Gotta love him <3

Good ol' Ulmita. Thinking everything is all dandy and peachy with Russia like nothing is wrong.

[Ulmita]

Good ol' Ulmita. Thinking everything is all dandy and peachy with Russia like nothing is wrong.

Russia will be fine broski, no matter how much you guys wanna think the opposite. As i said, whats important is that the whole world saw why they need to leave usd and form new alliances. =)

[Baneth]

Russia will be fine broski, no matter how much you guys wanna think the opposite. As i said, whats important is that the whole world saw why they need to leave usd and form new alliances. =)

What did the whole world see, exactly, that would make them want to abandon the usd? If anything, it makes people not want to give Russia anymore power then they already have. Like how EU is looking for other places/ways to get energy.

Despite what you want to happen, the EU/Japan/Australia are closer to the US now, than they were back in 2013. Russia is an international pariah, whom the Chinese are taking advantage of in every deal possible, since they have nowhere else to go and do business with. Russia screwed itself over tenfold with their adventurism, not the EU.

[Ausr]

Russia will be fine broski, no matter how much you guys wanna think the opposite. As i said, whats important is that the whole world saw why they need to leave usd and form new alliances. =)

Congratulations on buying into Cybran's bullshit that the world will magically ditch the USD tomorrow and buy up the rubble. Delusional.

[Ulmita]

What did the whole world see, exactly, that would make them want to abandon the usd? If anything, it makes people not want to give Russia anymore power then they already have. Like how EU is looking for other places/ways to get energy.

Energy will always be cheaper from Russia due to logistics. Business will return soon to usual =)

Despite what you want to happen, the EU/Japan/Australia are closer to the US now, than they were back in 2013. Russia is an international pariah, whom the Chinese are taking advantage of in every deal possible, since they have nowhere else to go and do business with. Russia screwed itself over tenfold with their adventurism, not the EU.

Please don't use the world EU, you sound ridiculous to say the least.

US/Australia are both British colonies so for sure they are going to run behind UK. Japs are just under US direction after those 2 nukes (and some 100000 dead and some million after born with mutations etc). Nothing new there.

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Congratulations on buying into Cybran's bullshit that the world will magically ditch the USD tomorrow and buy up the rubble. Delusional.

I don't even what Cybran is saying, but i sure hope they will. I mean if you let so much power in one country that if they don't like you they can basically start an economical war w/t any consequences then there is a big fucking problem.

Countries NEED TO LEAVE USD if they value their sovereignty. Cause if some day US doesn't like their goverment they are fucked.