SoO ... Congratulation

[antelope591]

All people that are unhappy just unsub till WoD...I already unsubbed 2 months ago and its not the end of the world. Plenty of other games out there. Its obvious blizz doesnt care and why should they with basically no sub losses? Why someone would put themselves through over a year of SoO is beyond me

[huth]

Fortunately the majority of companies only communicate to their customers what they are capable of fulfilling rather than what they think their customers would like to hear so I find these kind of situations - rare.

I think you just ended up in a parallel dimension. Most companies i know tend to lie their asses off and refuse all responsibility unless you can nail them with hard evidence. And not about stuff as harmless and, when you get down to it, unimportant as releasing games faster, but rather serious and dangerous things like "this nuclear power plant is definitely completely safe" or "we have the oil spill under control".

[Sul]

In reality all they had to do was make the first raid tier and TOT last longer. The problem is that Blizz blows their load early on raid tiers and then goes into "xpac mode"

not really , the problem was that they were further along with development at that stage , then something went wrong . Blizzard will delay launch of products if they arnt up to their standards. you only have to go back to MoP beta for that , that went a few weeks at least longer then it should of because they wernt happy with jade forrest , closed it down ad totally redid it , meaning it had to be tested again .Titan is another example - scrapped years of work because the didn't like the direction it was going. A polished product is the only thing they will deliver, and as they have repeated often over the years -its released when its ready

there is an unsupported rumour I have heard that it was the new file system that is the culprit this time , don't know if this is the case or if they simply didn't like some of the planned things once they coded and internally tested .

Blizzard can solve this by giving the players no information what so ever , that way people wont take what they say as a promise instead of what it actually is , then telling us things they have plans on doing or progress at that particular point in time-what would you prefer?

[roahn the warlock]

Blizzard never made any promise.

Literally... blizzard never made any promise... all they ever said is that they will try.

If you don't want to play MoP for 6 more months, just unsubscribe...

Take a business ethics class. Lately Blizzard's ethics border on EA

[Meiluy]

problem with that list is it assumes everyone gives a shit about everything
they don't

Then that isn't Blizzard failing to provide stuff to do, but people refusing to do stuff that exists.

Company Puts out a game with 20 things to do
Player completes 8 things.
Player does not do other 12 things because he does not like them
Player now complains that the developer is doing a bad job because they aren't providing enough stuff to do till the next update, even though there is a ton of the game they still haven't played

How does this make sense? You're blaming Blizzard for not having content to explore, when there is content to explore that you refuse to do because you "don't give a shit" about it. If the stuff you want isn't being updated fast enough, then either try new stuff or stop playing. You don't have the right to complain that they aren't providing the content, because they are, and you're refusing to do it.

Take a business ethics class. Lately Blizzard's ethics border on EA

Explain how. They have said they would try. As of today they announced there are still things wrong with the Alpha build to the point they aren't ready for that to release. This happens with software, especially when it interacts with code that is 8-9 years old. Since they know there will potentially be stuff that prevents them from achieving some of their goals, they never promise stuff to customers, because in doing so they are potentially held liable should the fail to meet said obligations. This isn't a bad thing, it's a covering their own ass thing. If you have a problem with that, then you have NO idea how the world of business, especially Big Business, works whatsoever.

I'm sad we haven't hit beta yet, but I understand they aren't withholding it because they are evil/greedy/whatever you want to claim. They are withholding because they want the Beta to be "playable" for their testers. If the beta client isn't even stable enough for people to test stuff reliably, then it's a waste of a beta.

[Raugnaut]

They did pretty good up to SoO. 2-4 months in between patches is a new record, and all of the patches were, imo, high quality. SoO is also much, MUCH better then DS, which is a large boon. They also have a much, MUCH larger array of end-game content this expansion then in any previous expansion- full Brawler's Guild, C-modes on multiple alts, Timeless Isle rare farming, PvP in all forms, ect.

In addition, they probably aren't worried about loosing subs due to the lull in content between now and WoD release, because they will likely get the subs back, and then some, come WoD. They also have Hearthstone, and eventually Heroes generating revenue for them, and helping to keep people interested in their franchise.

[jac9996]

I do think its funny how they were saying like "oh yeah we maybe said there might be a filler patch but if we do a filler patch then wod will take longer to release, so we would rather just skip the filler patch and release wod much more sooner and we also want to release expansions faster so you no longer have to have a raid tier last for a whole year or so". So they don't do the filler patch and yet wod is still ages off (from the look of it) and SoO, as expected will be another raid tier that will have to last around a year just like dragon soul etc. I wouldn't like to think how long it would take them to release WoD if they did actually go ahead with a filler patch. Considering they hired more staff to, its a let down and i don't buy the whole "oh well we have to train the new staff up first" excuse they are using regarding hiring more staff and the pace of content releases not really changing. Surely you would hire people that don't need training to help with faster expansion releases or even if they do need training, hiring them way before saying faster expansion releases so they can be ready to help work on the expansions and have them released faster so they can actually stick to what they say instead of making up excuses. If this is them "trying" for faster expansion releases then im not to impressed yet.

[Toiran]

Then that isn't Blizzard failing to provide stuff to do, but people refusing to do stuff that exists.

Company Puts out a game with 20 things to do
Player completes 8 things.
Player does not do other 12 things because he does not like them
Player now complains that the developer is doing a bad job because they aren't providing enough stuff to do till the next update, even though there is a ton of the game they still haven't played

How does this make sense? You're blaming Blizzard for not having content to explore, when there is content to explore that you refuse to do because you "don't give a shit" about it. If the stuff you want isn't being updated fast enough, then either try new stuff or stop playing. You don't have the right to complain that they aren't providing the content, because they are, and you're refusing to do it.

How anyone can defend 8 MONTHS of no content, is beyond me, really, I love WoW, i love Blizzard games, I have sunk thousands upon thousands of hours into Blizzard games, I've pre-ordered WoD, I'll be playing it, but how anyone can find 8 months to a year of old content acceptable is beyond me, truely, the reason there isnt new content is because people like you accept no content.

You know what the greatest thing to happen to WoW players would be? If Wildstar was a runaway success, Blizzard NEED competition, they are lazy, they don't have to do shit, they have zero competition, they need competition to start to innovate again, it's easy to see, why do you think HoTS is different to LoL and DoTA? They HAVE to innovate there to have a chance, they have competition, same for Hearthstone to a lesser degree.

For WoW to last longer and be healthy, it needs to get really sick really fast first, it's cheesy but if people want this game to last another 5, 10 years, it needs to get shot in back.

A monopoly is good to no one.

Sadly a company that becomes a giant becomes delusional that they are untouchable, look at Nokia, Blackberry, Insert XYZ, they were 10x what Blizzard is, now look, they didn't innovate, they got overtaken and left in the dust and never recovered. May be different markets, but it doesn't matter, it's very, very basic.

(The Hangover film series is a great example of this, a great example, a huge runaway success, a movie that was different and new (In its area), then they did the same damn thing again, people rushed to it because of the first, it could of been 90mins of a black screen, and it still would of made hundreds of millions because of the first film, then, they did it again, the exact same thing again, and it was panned and though made a profit, was seen as a box office failure)

[roahn the warlock]

Then that isn't Blizzard failing to provide stuff to do, but people refusing to do stuff that exists.

Company Puts out a game with 20 things to do
Player completes 8 things.
Player does not do other 12 things because he does not like them
Player now complains that the developer is doing a bad job because they aren't providing enough stuff to do till the next update, even though there is a ton of the game they still haven't played

How does this make sense? You're blaming Blizzard for not having content to explore, when there is content to explore that you refuse to do because you "don't give a shit" about it. If the stuff you want isn't being updated fast enough, then either try new stuff or stop playing. You don't have the right to complain that they aren't providing the content, because they are, and you're refusing to do it.



Explain how. They have said they would try. As of today they announced there are still things wrong with the Alpha build to the point they aren't ready for that to release. This happens with software, especially when it interacts with code that is 8-9 years old. Since they know there will potentially be stuff that prevents them from achieving some of their goals, they never promise stuff to customers, because in doing so they are potentially held liable should the fail to meet said obligations. This isn't a bad thing, it's a covering their own ass thing. If you have a problem with that, then you have NO idea how the world of business, especially Big Business, works whatsoever.

I'm sad we haven't hit beta yet, but I understand they aren't withholding it because they are evil/greedy/whatever you want to claim. They are withholding because they want the Beta to be "playable" for their testers. If the beta client isn't even stable enough for people to test stuff reliably, then it's a waste of a beta.

Pretty much bashiok's post saying all our twitter comments and excitement were just "Intentions to improve" it's pretty underhanded. Legally correct or otherwise

[Meiluy]

How anyone can defend 8 MONTHS of no content, is beyond me, really, I love WoW, i love Blizzard games, I have sunk thousands upon thousands of hours into Blizzard games, I've pre-ordered WoD, I'll be playing it, but how anyone can find 8 months to a year of old content acceptable is beyond me, truely, the reason there isnt new content is because people like you accept no content.

I can defend it because I know there is still plenty of stuff to do in the game. I don't focus on one or two things. You want to know what the common complaint is? No new raid stuff for a year. Guess what, that's ONE thing in this game that has dozens of things to do. So the real question is how can anyone complain this much when there is still a ton of stuff to do that ISN'T raiding.

I swear to god that people need to understand this isn't Raiding: The MMO. Or PvP: The MMO. Or Any One Thing.

[thejm]

I can defend it because I know there is still plenty of stuff to do in the game. I don't focus on one or two things. You want to know what the common complaint is? No new raid stuff for a year. Guess what, that's ONE thing in this game that has dozens of things to do. So the real question is how can anyone complain this much when there is still a ton of stuff to do that ISN'T raiding.

I swear to god that people need to understand this isn't Raiding: The MMO. Or PvP: The MMO. Or Any One Thing.

Please...you're not doing anything productive by defending blizzard's laziness. People are here because they enjoy the game as much as you, but they also are bored and want new content. Bliz said they *want* to make more content in shorter amounts of time, yet this is the total opposite. They have a record of keeping secrets from the public, so when they say things like this and don't follow through, its essentially breaking a promise. Same thing happened for Diablo 3 and you see how great that game turned out to be.

If people complain and quit subscriptions, the game will either get better or die. Don't defend bliz...

[Meiluy]

Please...you're not doing anything productive by defending blizzard's laziness. People are here because they enjoy the game as much as you, but they also are bored and want new content. Bliz said they *want* to make more content in shorter amounts of time, yet this is the total opposite. They have a record of keeping secrets from the public, so when they say things like this and don't follow through, its essentially breaking a promise. Same thing happened for Diablo 3 and you see how great that game turned out to be.

If people complain and quit subscriptions, the game will either get better or die. Don't defend bliz...

And people who refuse to do the tons of content still in the game yet complain that the one or two things they care about aren't being updated fast are being productive? Blizzard has stated they want to make more content. They also stated they had to make a decision of either a content patch that delays the release of WoD (therefore still a lengthy window of no new content) or concentrating on getting the expansion ready ASAP. They chose to focus on the expansion, which is the better move.

A record of keeping secrets from the public, you say? Name ONE big gaming company that is 100% open about everything that goes on in their studios in regard to game development. You can't, because they all keep secrets to protect their IPs. This is NORMAL, and getting upset about this is one of the stupidest things you can do. As for the "if they say they want to do something, but don't do it, they are breaking a promise" line, it's clear you have no idea how the real world works. Shit happens. This phrase is key to understanding how the universe works. They said they wanted to have less time between final content patch and expansion, yet the issues they are encountering with preparing WoD is preventing them from being able to accomplish that want. Would you have rather had an incomplete, buggy as hell release of an expansion just so there was less time in SoO? No? Then understand that there are clearly problems they did not forsee when they made that statement of purpose. It wasn't a promise, because they knew they couldn't guarantee it.

If people cancel their subs, it will let Blizzard know that people are unhappy. This is true. It will also cut revenue that they funnel into creating content, so the content we get will be lesser for it. Understand you are hurting the progress of the game when you unsubscribe to prove a point, please.

I'll defend Blizzard from people who have worthless complaints as I wish. Bring me something more than "No new raids = no new content" or "Blizzard is mean/evil/lying to us" and maybe I'll listen.

[Paradyne]

No, it isn't. Especially not if they use wording that clearly indicates that it is not a certainty. Like "we will try to".

Well if they put out any sort of statement to their customers that they intend to improve their service standards & then they fail to achieve that they can hardly be surprised when they are criticized for it. Such is the nature of being a provider of services to customers.

- - - Updated - - -

If people cancel their subs, it will let Blizzard know that people are unhappy. This is true. It will also cut revenue that they funnel into creating content, so the content we get will be lesser for it. Understand you are hurting the progress of the game when you unsubscribe to prove a point, please.

I'll defend Blizzard from people who have worthless complaints as I wish. Bring me something more than "No new raids = no new content" or "Blizzard is mean/evil/lying to us" and maybe I'll listen.

Did you literally just suggest people should continue paying for a service they are unhappy with because it is better for you & Blizzard?

I'm afraid not even Blizzard agree with you on this one, tweet from Ion Hazzikostas:

"Honestly, I'd rather someone take a break until new content rather than leave frustrated after grinding for loot that doesn't drop" @watcherdev

So even Blizzard are saying they would rather people unsubscribe until new content comes out than be frustrated.

[Meiluy]

Well if they put out any sort of statement to their customers that they intend to improve their service standards & then they fail to achieve that they can hardly be surprised when they are criticized for it. Such is the nature of being a provider of services to customers.

- - - Updated - - -



Did you literally just suggest people should continue paying for a service they are unhappy with because it is better for you & Blizzard?

I'm afraid not even Blizzard agree with you on this one, tweet from Ion Hazzikostas:

"Honestly, I'd rather someone take a break until new content rather than leave frustrated after grinding for loot that doesn't drop" @watcherdev

So even Blizzard are saying they would rather people unsubscribe until new content comes out than be frustrated.

No, I'm saying don't unsub to send a message to Blizzard. Unsub only if you are done playing the game until you feel like playing again. Unsubbing to send a message to Blizzard so they improve stuff doesn't help them improve stuff, it hinders them. As I said before, I have only unsubbed before due to financial or life issues, never because of being dissatisfied. When I found that I had completed all of the content I had been playing, I went searching for more content. It's how I know I don't like PvP when I'm not playing alongside friends... because I tried when I ran out of stuff to do in Wrath. Then I discovered more stuff to do (playing an alt to try tanking) at a friends recommendation.

I didn't unsub because I still liked the game. I want it to improve. But I understand they still need money to make that happen, so I don't unsub when I don't have to.

As for what Blizzard is saying, it boils down to "If you don't have fun, then don't play." And that is fine. If you still like playing, but are unhappy with something they have said/the speed of the content's release, then don't unsub to prove a point. It's childish, and hurts the game in the long run...

[Ezekiah]

must be a hard knox life I hope you get paid money at least seems like a 'job' of what you just described.

I guess that part about "to maximize my enjoyment" was something you overlooked? I have a very specific way that I play this game, which I enjoy, and to maintain that, I have to put in a certain amount of effort. In fact, without that effort it probably wouldn't not be nearly as fun for me. So no, this is not a job. I am frustrated that we were told that the expansion was "further along than we probably expect" when it was clearly not. I am frustrated that this tier is going to be out as long as it is. I also know that I will still be happy with the upcoming content. It is a 17 boss tier. That's insane, and I'm excited. I just wish expectations for Siege of Orgrimmar's length had been clearer, or better yet, that T14 and T15 had been a bit longer to shorten this tiers overall length.

Nothing to do about it now, though. I think the ilvl upgrades will be nice. Should allow us to fool around and bring in alts/sales more.

[Sunseeker]

So unsub. Go do something else for until WoD launches.

Sheesh, you folks act like there's nothing to do on the internet except raid SoO.

If you haven't beaten SoO, fine keep doing it till you do. If you have and don't want/need gear from it, go do something else. There's a dozen interesting and free MMOs out there, try one.

[Issalice]

I might be wrong but I don't recall them ever making a promise. I do remember them saying they would try to release content faster. Not saying this wait is acceptable, just that I really don't think they promised anything.

[Steehl]

Alpha and beta have both been delayed due to wanting to revamp the starting zones for each faction. Feedback from the press test events were largely that it could be improved, so they're taking their time to get it to a place both they and us consumers will be comfortable with testing. It's a similar situation the starting zones in MoP. During the beta, they decided to completely revamp Jade Forest. Unfortunately, they had already let people into the beta (and still had to let even more in for the annual pass), so instead of just closing it down for public play, they bumped people's levels up to 86 and let them start in VotFW. This time, probably because they don't have a million people they promised to let into the beta like for MoP, they're trying to get it as close to right before letting people test it. I'm all for that happening, because it means we'll have a more stable game to test when it finally opens to beta.

What I'm not okay with is the lack of information we're getting. It's almost been a month since the last major alpha patch, and we've received little word on anything else about the expansion. The wait is so much worse with radio silence from the other side.

[Vanos27]

This thread disgusts me. It's filled with nothing but Blizzard apologists. They have done this three times now. Why are you accepting this? Why is it an acceptable practice to unsub till the next expansion?

Remember when Blizzard stated that "they're farther along with the expansion then we think". Well this turned out exactly how we thought it would and very few people care who are eclipsed by all the Blizzard yes-men.

[frymastermeat]

Expansions are big projects. There's no point in complaining about release dates. What you really should be angry about is the lack of a new raid tier or two between SoO and WoD. I have to imagine that Blizzard thought they were further along with WoD when they decided to let 5.4 be the last patch.

MSV, HoF, ToES: 6 months
ToT: 6 months
SoO: 8 months and counting

If there had been a new raid/content patch two months ago this forum wouldn't be the cesspool of angry white people it has become.