Totems - Why do we actually have them?

[Mithgroth]

Alright, I know, Shaman forums, totems, very unusual.

I've been playing my Shaman for many years, but lately I found myself questioning totems.
Why do we really have them?

Totems are simple. They are actions tied to sticks. Searing totem is a Warlock Imp tied to a stick, grounding totem is a shield reflect-ish spell tied to a stick, you get the point. We are all shamans here anyway.

I actually want to approach this in a constructive, optimistic way in case I'm missing the obvious. However, any action is better off not being a totem. Would you prefer fire elemental totem or summon fire elemental? Or would you want -let's say, I don't know- your new brand new expension spell as a totem, or just a spell? Hypothetically, would you rather have Druid's fearie fire, or fearie fire totem? (I know it sounded a bit silly)

My point is, every class/spec has something unique about them, and no doubt they are all beneficial.
Hunter pets, they are beneficial even for non-BM specs.
Frost school provides excellent stuff for frost mages.
Poisons, control spells, they help the rogue in combat, they are all beneficial.

Why shamans' unique ability to summon totems is a drawback? The usual way, having it as a spell is way better.
I'm asking sincerely, can anyone tell me one good gameplay advantage of totems?

I know some of them look cool, but seriously, what's the point of having them?
I'm sorry to roll another "totomz!!1" thread, but it really made me thinking.

[ablib]

I think it's just class uniqueness. Lore. Looks.

A hunter pet is just a dot, but I think the pet is cooler than just pressing the Shadow Word: Pain button.

[Deleted]

Because blizzard have decidd that totems are the core of the shaman class, and won't listen to any complaints or constructive criticism about how clunky and irritating they are, dismissing such criticism as "a vocal minority" and continuing with their philosophy of giving shaman tools that other classes have but worse.

[Tedbuckland]

Alright, I know, Shaman forums, totems, very unusual.

I've been playing my Shaman for many years, but lately I found myself questioning totems.
Why do we really have them?

Totems are simple. They are actions tied to sticks. Searing totem is a Warlock Imp tied to a stick, grounding totem is a shield reflect-ish spell tied to a stick, you get the point. We are all shamans here anyway.

I actually want to approach this in a constructive, optimistic way in case I'm missing the obvious. However, any action is better off not being a totem. Would you prefer fire elemental totem or summon fire elemental? Or would you want -let's say, I don't know- your new brand new expension spell as a totem, or just a spell? Hypothetically, would you rather have Druid's fearie fire, or fearie fire totem? (I know it sounded a bit silly)

My point is, every class/spec has something unique about them, and no doubt they are all beneficial.
Hunter pets, they are beneficial even for non-BM specs.
Frost school provides excellent stuff for frost mages.
Poisons, control spells, they help the rogue in combat, they are all beneficial.

Why shamans' unique ability to summon totems is a drawback? The usual way, having it as a spell is way better.
I'm asking sincerely, can anyone tell me one good gameplay advantage of totems?

I know some of them look cool, but seriously, what's the point of having them?
I'm sorry to roll another "totomz!!1" thread, but it really made me thinking.

Totems are typically used or thought of as relating or communicating to ancestors or spirits. Shamans are literally that, they commune with the elemental plane(s) and their respective spirits and in order to assist with that communication they use totems. So ya, you missed the obvious.

[Andyclan]

I like totems. I like Shaman. I like the fact that we have them.

What I don't like is how they tie the wrong type of abilities to them.

Stoneclaw? Great! Grounding? awesome! Tremor? Sure! Back when they were auras? I liked it too.

Elementals tied to a totem? NO. Earthgrab totem? Nope. (by the time I have gotten away and ready to cast as say, elemental, theyre already out!) Capacitor? NO!

They need to know when to tie an ability to a totem and when not to, it just becomes clunky not very fun.

[Riplin]

Some totems are in a good place right now; useful, situational, balanced, and not idiot-proof:

Grounding
Tremor
Stone Bulwark
Healing (both)
Mana
etc.

Some are so weak they really aren't worth the global most of the time:

Searing (except Enhance)
Magma
Earthbind
Earth Elemental (unless talented)
etc.

Stormlash is a braindead totem, something we know Blizzard doesn't like. It just goes into a burst macro and is forgotten forever

Capacitor is a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest

Fire Elemental is decent but again, tied to a totem is lame. Have it spring from a totem, and dropping a 2nd fire totem obviously cancels it...but let it roam baby.

Totemic Projection is almost completely (and intentionally) broken because of other classes' ability to exploit geography. This is really really stupid. Trying to launch a totem down a slight slope? NOPE!!! No path found, idiot!



Bottom line. Most totems are good right now; only a few changes need to be made:

1. Find a way to make Totemic Projection functional or scrap it entirely.

2. Find a way to make Capacitor totem useful or scrap it entirely.

3. Buff Searing and Magma damage a bit or perhaps Searing could have a secondary effect added.

4. Do something with Earthbind. I don't know. Snares are negated by most classes and the ones who aren't, just whack-a-totem for 5 health or hit a kill-all macro. I suppose this one wouldn't need anything really if Totemic Projection worked so you could snare a group of people at range. There's really no point in dropping Earthbind where you are standing and hoping that will allow you to get space. Earthgrab is a little better, but again, requires a talent and would be FAR more useful if you could reliably launch it.

[Deleted]

Totems is what what makes shaman class unique one. i like them. As mention before they apart of shamanistic culture.

[Mithgroth]

Totems are typically used or thought of as relating or communicating to ancestors or spirits. Shamans are literally that, they commune with the elemental plane(s) and their respective spirits and in order to assist with that communication they use totems. So ya, you missed the obvious.

That has nothing to do with gameplay mechanics, the question wasn't "What is a totem?". And it's even more funny when you irrelevantly answer it with quote. So no, actually you missed the obvious.

Totems is what what makes shaman class unique one. i like them. As mention before they apart of shamanistic culture.

I'm a long term shaman and I fail to see a positive side -in terms of gameplay mechanics- of this uniqueness, unless you can name me one except looks or flavor. (neither are related to gameplay)

Who would play the class whose hero power is "damage your hero by 2" in Hearthstone? It's unique yeah, but it hurts the class, doesn't even make sense.

Capacitor is a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest

Day --> made, thanks.
However, it's still not what I'm directly searching for.

Totems are better than they were, that's for sure. However, nobody would prefer having Grounding buff depending on a stick, instead of without the stick. I'm more concerned with the basics of totem mechanics.

It used to be somewhat reasonable before -waaaay before-. We had many buffs, probably more than anybody. We were -if not the best- one of the best utility classes before homogenization happened. And totem drawbacks were the price for that flexibility. We were able to offer many things, but it was a little bit limited.

And that was fine.

It doesn't make any sense at all today, considering the buff mechanics work. We lost our advantage, but the drawback remains. Things changed, totems didn't. Some of us don't even see totems belong today's WoW, yet we don't dare talking about it much because of "don't like totems? then gtfo" shizzle and well... We all know, and absolutely almost sure about how do Blizzard see Shaman and the community today. I'm literally scared of an "oh, totems suck? all totems removed, carry on" answer.

My confusion still stands, is there an even single good point of having an ability as a totem instead of a direct spell/ability? I want to say yes, because it supposed to be. But I'm afraid, I can't even think of one scenario where I wouldn't say no.

That's worrying because it almost means our beloved totems are now holding us back. It's the law of the nature, you adapt or you die. Revamp or remove --> replace.

[Friendlyimmolation]

lore wise their totems let them talk better to the elementals. Destroying the Shaman's totems severely reduces their powers. The only Shaman I ever saw that didn't use totems was Green Jesus.

[Mithgroth]

This is from another thread going on, showing the bad impact on a slightest idea, making it perish before it can be given some proper thinking:

5. That'd be interesting, but an 'Ursol's Vortex'-like totem would be much more appreciated.

I don't know why somebody really would want a vortex like totem. the big problem is you get moved to the center of the vortex and there is the totem and you can just kill it.

[Lavindar]

I like totems, and I am not gonna lie, when I first started playing, they were the reasons I did not play a shaman, but after I started to main my Enhancement, I started to really like totems. I also believe that the actual system is better that the previous one, the problem is that the actual system is hit harder for the shortcomings that totems always had.

I do believe that totems can have a lot of improvements, but I definitely don't want to have them removed or they use diminished even more.

[Blithe]

Because blizzard have decided that totems are the core of the shaman class, and won't listen to any complaints or constructive criticism about how clunky and irritating they are, dismissing such criticism as "a vocal minority" and continuing with their philosophy of giving shaman tools that other classes have but worse.

Yes! So much this!

I think Totems fit lore-wise, but they're clunky when related to game-play. Blizzard has said a lot of things would fit thematically, and refused to implement them because of game-play issues so why do we have to be stuck with this? Elementals still require a totem after all these years; do the Infernal or Doomguard? NO.

I liked the idea of them when I first started playing in Classic, and as the game evolved, they started to be left in the dark until they were finally fixed in Cataclysm. I fear they're following that same dark path again. I'm sick of band-aid fixes.

[Nebria]

This is from another thread going on, showing the bad impact on a slightest idea, making it perish before it can be given some proper thinking:

the problem is, if you create a totem with some cool effect you have to think about the weakness of a totem and if it makes sense then
earthgrab has the same issue. if somebody is rooted near the totem he can kill it. I think the roots will still hold some time so the totem has its job done.
capacitator (to compare is a little bit to vortex)got its time till stunning so that you could kill it if you notice it and to give us time to use projection with it.
for me most of the time other players ignore it
so for sure it is possible that if everytime you place a capacitator totem it gets destroyed immediately you won't have any use from it. and in this situation somebody negates completly the function of the totem. and this sucks hard if you compare it so shadowfury or other stuns.
in pve you won't have this problem of course.

and I'm fine with grounding totem.
I haven't met somebody in the last couple of month who killed it with the wand.
if you see a warlock is casting chaosbolt and you just place it in that moment it eats it. job done. so no issue here that it is a totem for me. it's job is to eat one spell on you/your group. a warrior will use spell reflect the same. he sees something casted, go for it.

by the way the disadvantage of totems that they are easy killed could also be used for a spell
back in the years where we didn't have hex, and this way no cc at all, I thought about how cool it would be if you would trap somebody in a ring of 4 totems that hold you on ground with lightning (perhaps 4 each colored by their totem) and you have to kill all 4 totems to get him out. no dispell, just kill the 4 totems.
that would also mean you can not use another totem cause they are used for the trap. if you do the totem gets removed and the trap is weakened. but this way you could use some totems while somebody is "grounded". if would of course worked in range.

another thing I liked about stoneclaw totem was, if you hurt it, it can stun you.
our totems are weak, yes. 5hp and what not. so easy killable, and back in the days where buff were not an aura but a totem everybody could just remove our buff which was a pain (totem wanding, pet kills totems).
so I wished if somebody kills a totem, he gets a debuff on him, or stuns him or whatever. something which has to do with the type of totem he destroyed.
for example you kill the healing tide totem -> you get healing debuff
you kill the tremor totem -> you get feared

this way nobody would start to kill totems like a headless chicken.
ok a lot of totems have their job done when I used them, like tremor, wind walk, grounding, so today it wouldn't make so much sense (especially no that buffs are auras) as in the good old time where everything was a totem^^

and by the way I'm fine with totems and don't want them to be removed.
sometimes I really have some prolem to understand peoples issues with them
in pvp most of the time people ignore them except it is mana tide or healing tide, and everyhing else does it job
there are some clunky mechanics if you want to stun someone far away but well I can deal with it.
so what is the benefit if you ignore the fact that sombody could kill it?
and I also find they are a signature of the class design so removing them is like removing shapeshifting from druids.
if we would have no totems we are like mages just with lightning... and still no blink

[Murderdoll]

Unique =/= Good.

I think we as Shaman, need totems. They give us a flavor (read:unique) and in a time where classes seem more and more the same those fine details are needed to seperate us. That doesnt mean they are good. They are more often than not hindrances to our overall gameplay.

They either need to remove them and make them cosmetic or find a way to become less of a burden.

[Segasik]

Shamans have totems becuse they are UNIQUE and ICONIC for shamans, nowadays even more then Bloodlust.
They have removed WF Totem (the true and only epic one) and now they are just trying to give us something to compensate.
Well it's been a while.
Still nothing.
However FEAR NOT.
Shamans are sticked to the Totems till .. WoW End.

[nosebone]

what would we be called without totems?

when I first started playing wow and I saw my first shaman drop totems I thought it was the coolest thing and immediately created a shaman.

I don't want them to become just spells. I want to litter the battle field with my totems.

I use glyph of totemic encirclement so when you come up on me there are totems everywhere.

I want more totems.

[Blithe]

what would we be called without totems?

when I first started playing wow and I saw my first shaman drop totems I thought it was the coolest thing and immediately created a shaman.

I don't want them to become just spells. I want to litter the battle field with my totems.

I use glyph of totemic encirclement so when you come up on me there are totems everywhere.

I want more totems.

Not exactly saying "remove" them, but make the ones we already have more purposeful, and less of a hindrance to our game-play. I don't trust Blizzard enough to add more totems yet, I mean, look at Capacitor Totem.

[Anzen]

Flavour.

/thread

[Omanley]

Disclaimer:
1) I dont hate totems as an idea, and I dont want them removed
2) I actually love totems as a source of shaman flavour, hence why I want them seen improved
3) I believe totem flavour is not tied to their drawbacks, or dependant on it. All it depends on is the visual of totems. Wether they can turn invisible, serve as flying mounts, follow the shaman while levitating, explode, imprison enemies or whatever else, as long as the thing you originally drop looks like a totem, flavour is preserved and it deserves being called a totem. None else is required to be a totem.
4) Even though I would never, ever, want to see totems gone, as they feel like an integral part of the class now, they actually were not part of the wcIII shaman, but came from the witch doctor and shadow hunter, under the name of wards. Essentially, they are troll flavour specifically. They are not actually required per se for flavour, and should merely add to it, not dictate our class design gameplay or style-wise.

Totems were designed as they are now from the very beginning(vanilla beta). The thought behind totems was likely a huge arsenal of both long duration buffs and other utility, to make shamans the most ideal and versatile supporters.
The motto was quantity > quality, and to balance a huge toolkit with the other classes, a lot of restrictions were put into place to keep totems in line.
Having to many buffs at the same time? => 1totem/element
Having to much support from totems in pvp? => immobile, to cost shamans recources maintaining that stuff
Having no cooldown and long durations => needs long duration to trip shamans up

All in all, everything was considered. Blizz balanced the totem setup for pvp in the vanilla beta. I dont know if it is the lack of motivation to rebalance something old for pvp, or to rebalance something belonging for shamans, or whatever else reason. Fact is: after heavy homogenisation which meant the removal,nerfing or effect distribution of several totems, the mechanic needed a big change, and call to the elements/ancients/spirits didn't do the trick. Totems had to be meaningful, to deserve their still in place and now unreaosnable drawbacks despite homogenisation.

Buff totems were turned into auras. Hurray! I had asked for that for years, was so happy when they finally gave in and did it.
The second part about my suggested totem change was to make totems into meaningful cooldowns, and they did that as well. Hurray!
But wait: What about the drawbacks of totems on a cd based utility kit? Damn, they overlooked something.

Blizz realized their mistake, but didn't get to fix it. They at one point considered baseline 10% shaman health totems, but the concept was scrapped. Most likely because some totems like grounding would've been out of line. And there's a big problem, blizz meassures everything by the same totemstick (bad shaman pun ).
Because of the same reason, all totems became unusable while silenced, despite only one or two performing out of line.
Another result of that realisation was the totem talent. Blizz likely felt that simply removing all restrictions would be hard to balance, and instead decided on weak replacements as talents. Not only did it not fix the problem, it made the totem tier feel weak as well, because improving weak stuff doesn't feel accomplishing, wether it is through totem talents, or glyph of CPT/GW/etc.

Blizz is either unable or to lazy to design totems individually, but that is simply what they (totems) need: Individual treatment. This isn't vanilla, where everyone's special and balance a mess. It's about homogenisation for the most part, blizz had 10 years to bring order in a originally chaotic world (of warcraft), and totems are no longer unique in what they provide, so their still unique drawbacks based on that are no longer matching.

After changing the concept of totem usage, blizz needed to rethink totem restrictions, but they never did. It's time.
Totems aren't inherently bad, they just need a really good polish up.

[Gurushock]

I like my totems. I wish some of them didn't suck, Searing Totem, Magma Totem and Stormlash.