Now for some Holy discussion...am I missing something, or is Clarity of Purpose kinda dumb?
PoH costs 11k mana and heals 9500 x 5 targets = ~47,500 total healing.
CoP costs 7.3k mana and heals 4300 x 6 possible targets = ~25,000 total healing
It just doesn't seem worth it at all. Sure, the mana cost is reduced by roughly 50%, but so is the total healing. What's the point? It seems kinda neat in that it's a cooldown-free CoH, but it does less hps than PoH for the same mana, and has a drastically reduced range. (10yd compared to 30yd)
Maybe it will be useful if there's an AoE damage part of a raid boss where the whole raid is stacked, but even then I'd still take PoH because it's much higher HPS.
CoP does increased healing on targets that have health missing up to 100% extra. If you heal someone at less than 10% you get full benefit for 100% extra if you heal someone at 90% you'll get pretty much nothing etc. CoP also doesn't have the group limitation that plagues PoH since forever but it has smaller range and is also affordable for full spamming unlike PoH which isn't.
Taking the talent is still not worth it since sanctuary + renew + coh + PoM with WoM and glyph + ToF combined with lots of multistrike is the unbeatable combo to max hps and that won't change until any of the spells of the above combination get nerfed which is highly doubtful or PoH, CoP get buffed in some way which is more plausible.
I remember a while back you were suggesting that Power Infusion was the best 75 talent to take. I think the reasoning was that ToF procs are quite rare since its nerf and the 15% healing buff isn't particularly great in comparison to a controlled 25% haste + 20% reduced mana cost.
Just curious what the reasoning is behind the thought change?
Can confirm this.
It seems the Discipline passive was removed or baked into Grace, since like Havoc said the only modifier is Grace (at 30%) now.
spellpower*5*(1+mastery)*(1+versatility)*1.3 was the formula used to calculate PWS. 1.3 is the Grace modifier.
4635*5*1.2325*1.024*1.3 = 38023.
Actual in-game number is 38055.
Last edited by Larynx; 2014-10-07 at 10:24 AM.
The reasoning is power word: solace giving 2% max mana every 10 sec, you don't need mana regen enchants, food at all with this talent you go full throughput and you have virtually endless mana while massively increasing your healing output. ToF on progress has more than 50-60% uptime on most fights, this is a gigantic boost to your healing and divine insight is worthless since you can't spam PoH for procs. I'm still surprised how solace hasn't been nerfed yet, it's way too overpowered currently.
If ToF sees such a high uptime with Holy, is it at all viable with Discipline? Or, are shields still not proccing ToF and Spirit Shell is still our go to talent?
Shields and absorbs in general don't proc ToF only actual healing does which is something you can achieve by using the pw:s glyph that converts 20% of the absorb into healing instead. Spirit shell without 4p well good luck using that with 11.4k per cast and you won't have access to tier before february when the 2nd instance releases since there's no tier in the 1st instance.
We were all surprised as well when disc was released as they were for 5.4, I think at this point it's safe to say that being surprised just shows a lot of blind faith in blizzard.
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I don't see why Holy Nova wouldn't proc ToF on fights where Holy can have high uptimes.
"My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility
Prediction for the future
Very true! I need to get into the mindset of remembering about HN. I can't really see much of a purpose to Power Infusion with PoH being so expensive. Perhaps for CoW building? I guess this means opting for either PI or ToF depending on the encounter until the next Tier opens. I think that is actually a little nice in that we can expect our gameplay to vary a touch in the same tier.
If we do fights with low ToF uptimes, we may as well run something else that is at least somewhat useful than next to useless, but that will have to come after experiencing raids properly when they get released as we learn the ins and outs of the encounters involved.
ToF is definitely more situational than it was in MoP, no doubt about it.
"My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility
Prediction for the future
What about the 4 set. You can cast a lot of PoH with serendipity. You need roughly 12k mp5 total regen to make a playstyle effectively casting a 2x serendipity PoH every 3 spells sustainable over 10 minutes and PoM with the 2set is with all procs together your strongest and most mana efficient heal. If you use Solace and you use a mix of renew and BH, while waiting for PoM procs to happen you can literally spam PoH with a mana drain at roughly 3k per second. For a total drain of 15k mp5. With a total of 12k mp5 you will run oom in about 5 minutes, of heavy aoe healing, which should be sustainable. The difference is you can push out in excess of 65k HPS sustained this way (at 5k sp, 30% multi and the rest on mastery) while CoH/renew/PoM caps at around 55k.
One PoH every 10s (cast with 2x serendipity ofc) gives you 0.4 PoM procs for 70k instead of a renew for 28k. So about 20k healing per 10s or 2k HPS. ToF at 50% uptime increases raw HPS by 7.5% which at 60k HPS is 4.5k HPS. With all three talents and using PoM on CD you can easily achieve one PoH per 6s, which is 3.3k HPS, but it also means two guaranteed extra serendipity procs per 10s, which is another PoH instead of a renew. The best part about DI is that you don't need to wait for the PoMs to trigger, meaning that you get the serendipity returns instantly. The only question is can you get enough mana regen and how much you lose from throughput stats.
can you tell us how much mana regeneration you have in total in combat and what kind of raw HPS you can push out.
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The reason is EoL/Renew. Holy will have a HoT on at least 10 people on a permanent basis. If one of them dips below the threshold it will instantly proc ToF. Disc on the other hand hits 5 random injured targets with HN and if the raid is spread out a lot of the healing comes from PWS which does not proc ToF. If one target dips below the threshold disc can easily miss it.
Last edited by mmoc58baca37e6; 2014-10-07 at 10:50 PM.
With 630 ilvl you could easily push 45-50k sustained without worrying about mana at any point, mana regen was roughly 5.3k, reaching 12k mp5 in order to sustain PoH is not even happening with full mythic gear even if you stack spirit on every slot which would cloak,neck both rings and both trinkets plus using spirit weapon enchant and spirit food.
"My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility
Prediction for the future
Disc with 30% grace is good for every fight. Also you can have a situation where you have your raid separated in clumps. E.g. melee clump, range clump1, range clump2. In these cases you can utilise holy nova effectively on your clump but you will only cast actual heals on the other clumps occasionally. Then again even in one clump if 10 targets are injured and only 1 is low then how many HNs on average will it take to proc a heal? Your chance is 50% with 1 cast, 75% with 2 casts. 0.875% with 3 casts and so on. I.e. there is a pretty big chance that you will miss it for 3 GCDs and even then you will be on a GCD after you hit it, so you lost a GCD already. For holy it can occur at any time from all the passive HoTs, meaning you don't lose that GCD. Each GCD is over 10% of the buff duration so that matters.
The chance that damage will occur EXACTLY after EoL has ticked is not very large. The damage is equally likely to happen at every single time point between the ticks and since it is everywhere equally likely then on average EoL will activate ToF from someone who went low in 1.5seconds. Rarely it will occur after almost 3 seconds. Equally rarely it will occur 0.1s after the damage is taken. More often the delay will be somewhere in between. Aside from EoL holy also has renew and sanctuary and lightwell (which targets specifically low health targets). That means you can have two HoTs on the target, which could be staggered and then the average delay will be less than 1s.
On top of that CoH and PoM from holy allow more targets to be healed per unit time and can target any group, which is even more chances to proc ToF. All in all you can expect holy to get significantly better benefit from ToF.
Last edited by mmoc58baca37e6; 2014-10-08 at 04:19 PM.