Escapes in (world) PvP

[Blithe]

The game hasn't been rock-paper-scissors for a long time. It's more in the lines of knife -> shotgun -> magic bullsh*t now. Getting it back to rock paper scissors, or as I like to call it 'the canons of RPG' (where mana ends and casters have to concentrate, warriors don't bounce around like flubber and rogues have to consider their health / cooldowns carefully) is what I'm trying to think on how to do, focusing on one annoying over the top thing at a time.

I main a warrior and I'm honestly annyed with having to do those ridiculous 100 yard leap -> banner intervene -> charge combos. Don't get me wrong, it's cool and all but it also feels flimsy as all hell to pretty much be required to be on the move all the time. When you play a class that swings a giant axe you expect to be able to pin people down and overpower them as opposed making Benny Hill theme appropriate.

Yeah, I can't help but shake the feeling I'm fighting a plate-wearing-Rogue whenever I fight a Warrior given all their interrupts, stuns and up-time.

[rasako]

Oh I'm aware how broken warlocks are if you let them do their thing. That's also not fine, and it's also the reason I'm gearing one (Can't bet 'em? Join 'em!). But that's beside the point, although I assume (and hope) they will also be nerfed come WoD. You could say it's all part of a bigger problem - either you CC someone and/or kill them in the opener or they run away / cc back and onehit you. That kind of gameplay is just not very fun, so we should pin-point and deal with each tiny bit that caused the game to devolve to this state. Escapes are a part of the problem -- along with cooldown stacking and everyone having everything. Which also makes this statement laughably ironic:



Let's play a little game. Name the class: Big hit/heal, small hit/heal, filler hit/heal, spamable aoe, proc, offensive cooldown, defensive cooldown, buff.

every class but a warrior! did I win the game?

OT: I'm actually quite glad that this talk has been keeping warriors out of the limelight as I feel that so many "pseudo-pros" think warriors are broken as hell when in reality they take quite a lot of practice to play effectively and the only people that really complain about them are people who really aren't any good, as there are FAR worse classes in the game that have far more BS moves that are on demand, easy to use, and not prone to bugging out over 75% of the time (heroic leap)

although I guess I'm a bit biased being a 9 year warrior player but seriously, they get way more attention and hate than is deserved, and I'd still say they're *arguably* the hardest class to play in pvp effectively. I'm actually finding myself playing my enhance shaman and windwalker monk more often due to the fact that I was gimping myself by playing just a warrior all these years, especially since they're consistently overshadowed by DKs and WW monks are the best 2v2 carry class in the game PERIOD.

[Blithe]

every class but a warrior! did I win the game?

OT: I'm actually quite glad that this talk has been keeping warriors out of the limelight as I feel that so many "pseudo-pros" think warriors are broken as hell when in reality they take quite a lot of practice to play effectively and the only people that really complain about them are people who really aren't any good, as there are FAR worse classes in the game that have far more BS moves that are on demand, easy to use, and not prone to bugging out over 75% of the time (heroic leap)

although I guess I'm a bit biased being a 9 year warrior player but seriously, they get way more attention and hate than is deserved, and I'd still say they're *arguably* the hardest class to play in pvp effectively. I'm actually finding myself playing my enhance shaman and windwalker monk more often due to the fact that I was gimping myself by playing just a warrior all these years, especially since they're consistently overshadowed by DKs and WW monks are the best 2v2 carry class in the game PERIOD.

They're not as hard as people make them out to be, and they certainly are not *the* hardest class to play effectively, that's for sure. A Warrior's biggest problem these days is scaling, and that's where Unholy wins, but the former class makes up for those issues by bringing a bit more utility to the table.

Warriors are one of the few melee with a purpose in 3's these days too, hence why they've been utilized for the past few tournaments. Their representation on the ladders is also reasonably high with 108/997 US, and 123/1001 EU (roughly 3-4x that of Unholy, Enhancement and Windwalker). Warriors are currently the top melee.

[Saberstrike]

The problem with melee at large is that even with 100% uptime you still die in seconds vs anything ranged, unless you have a good healer that isn't CCd.

[Deleted]

No doubt, we need more items that reveal stealth that are only usable in wpvp like the pandaria rare spawn items.

[Bryntrollian]

Really hard to give advice if you don't say what class you play. Only hard class to catch is rogue if you can't bleed, imo.

He doesn't need advice, he needs to rant!

[Saberstrike]

There's no advice to be given sadly. You're right, I just needed to let out some steam. Who knows, maybe someone from Blizzard stumbles upon the thread and punches class designer in the face for being so freaking stupid!

[Blithe]

There's no advice to be given sadly. You're right, I just needed to let out some steam. Who knows, maybe someone from Blizzard stumbles upon the thread and punches class designer in the face for being so freaking stupid!

Celestalon's already enraged the Shaman community. I think he should welcome himself to some extra community fists.

[Saberstrike]

What did he say about shamans? That it's about time ghost wolves run away in fear if they get within 10 yards of a pillar (don't mind me, not srs!)? ;D

[Deleted]

Nothing more awesome than trying to farm TI with a caster. You pull 2-3 mobs more accidently and then... BAM!!! rogue/feral jumps on you with all his stuns, interupts, slows and sprints. Zero chance to escape or even do anything to remotely damage them (all tho even if u manage is pointless).
Then you ress and turn on "revenge" mode. You find the mf rouge/feral and you jump on him. And what he do? The rouge just vanish and you can't do anyfukingthing about it, the druid go shapeshift lolspirnt good luck catching that. Fun times i tell you. I hate so much the rogue class that i wouldn't even try to level one... ever!
I see absolutley nothing fun in that to keep your opponent stuned 24/7 until you kill him or if he manage by some way to survaive the stun lock you just vanish away, wait for your cds, rinc enad repeat.
Very pro. Much skill. WoW.

[Blithe]

What did he say about shamans? That it's about time ghost wolves run away in fear if they get within 10 yards of a pillar (don't mind me, not srs!)? ;D

Haha, it's fine. He's doing that thing developer's do where they ignore you and call you "fine" when 90% of the classes' representation is crying about how broken the class is when it comes to mechanics, and how many of them don't make any sense whatsoever. A massive uproar over Tier 45 too, as it's essentially a 'band-aid' fix towards our horrid totem mechanics. I don't want to turn this into a rant thread, or change the topic so it'd just be better if you go and have a look yourself. It should also be all over Celestalon's twitter.

[PrairieChicken]

I think you left out monks.

Paralyze -> Roll away

[Deleted]

Every class should have a chance to escape in PvP, but having a toolset that guarantees an escape is too much. That's basically immortality (World PvP).

[Terahertz]

Every class should have a chance to escape in PvP, but having a toolset that guarantees an escape is too much. That's basically immortality (World PvP).

The only class out there I would say doesn't have a guaranteed way to escape are DKs.

[Deleted]

Never felt that way as a hunter in world PvP, I had a decent success rate against any class but one. There's only one class where I consistently failed when their priority was to run away after I shot my first arrow at them, and I doubt that it's only my fault for not succeeding.

[gestapo]

On the plus side in instanced pvp there's only so far your enemy can 'run' from you and escape. Perhaps you should do that if WPvP frustrates you because a lot of people will try to 'escape' and not give you the satisfaction of a kill. You either get used to it, employ better methods of catching the escapee, or play a class that has more tools.

There's also a 'Best-class-to-catch-People-who-run-away-in-World' thread in this forum . You should check out the replies, perhaps it will give you some ideas on countering some of your enemies' escape maneuvers.

I'd also highly recommend you read the other thread on this forum about various items that can be used in WPvP (especially Pandaria) to turn the tide in your favour. If I'm out in the world, I'm always armed with enough tools (from engi nitro boosts, to swiftness pots, to frost grenades, etc.) to protect myself from ganks as well as capture fleeing enemies. It's part of the fun! Once you learn to adapt you'll enjoy it better.

Also, Engineering. I have it on around 5 of my 8 pvp toons.

- - - Updated - - -

Wanted to be helpful, so:

Discussion on which classes are best to catch fleeing enemies in WPVP

&

Useful items for WPVP

[Zafire]

Complaining about Vanish? Really?

Warrior is a plate wearing class with the same CC's (Some on longer cooldowns than others, but still the same CC's), more damage, better armor, more interrupts, and more gap closers.

The only thing a Rogue has that is different from the same things every other class has is Stealth, Vanish, and Smokebomb.

No, really. That's all they have left that is unique to them. They have to wear leather armor to move swiftly and remain unencumbered, but every single class in the game basically gets a clone of everything they have.

If you took Vanish away you would be taking away the only other 'rogue' appeal the class has left.

[MrExcelion]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...enser-Farming)

Every class has an unbeatable escape mechanism. At least in the case of Pandaria, anyone can Cursed/Cracked Talisman and Hearth out, nothing you can do. On TI you can also Falling Flame. Other classes can also Battle Banner/Potion of Deepholm, check for Aeonaxx, and Hearth back. Most folks don't bother using the bag space on this stuff, but they very well might if Battle Banner goes in the toybox.

[Deleted]

Unstructured world pvp is usually crap anyway and is not intended to be balanced or competitive. If you want that, go for arenas and BGs. Expect the worst from WPvP no matter how rage inducing it is.