WoD Beta Affliction Discussion

[Deleted]

I don't know if this was reported but Drain Soul pseudo-DoT ticks do not scale with UA and Corr perks (+20% damage). Would be nice if someone could post that on US beta theorycraft thread (can't myself, being EU), to know whether it is intended or not. I can see arguments for it being either way. Logs if needed. Notice on these DS-UA and DS-Corr averages being 1/3 of UA and Corr averages respectively, while DS-Ago is 0.4 Ago average.

[Rtrain]

I don't know if this was reported but Drain Soul pseudo-DoT ticks do not scale with UA and Corr perks (+20% damage). Would be nice if someone could post that on US beta theorycraft thread (can't myself, being EU), to know whether it is intended or not. I can see arguments for it being either way. Logs if needed. Notice on these DS-UA and DS-Corr averages being 1/3 of UA and Corr averages respectively, while DS-Ago is 0.4 Ago average.

I posted it on the forums for you. thanks.

[DesireKT]

DS Corr/UA are correct being 1/3rd of the damage as it's supposed to be. Agony being higher is what's odd.

- - - Updated - - -

You are trying to make them double dip. Which isn't going to happen. The perks buff the base spell damage by 20% then DS does 30% of each tick every time it does damage. It's not actually corruption or UA that's doing damage when DS ticks thats why it's listed under another section in combat logs.

[Deleted]

Whatever do you mean, Aff takes GoSac and GoServ allllllll the time <Insert sarcasm here>. I think it'd be an interesting addition to Aff as well all things considered. But then they'd have to nerf it because stacking 2 damage modifiers from talents would be too good.

it would certainly give us something extra to look out for and might even give afflic a bit more depth than it currently but i think you're right, it might ben too powerful but it could be a possibility now that SB:haunt has been reduced to 15% dmg(from what ive gathered)

[luckydevours]

DS Corr/UA are correct being 1/3rd of the damage as it's supposed to be. Agony being higher is what's odd.

- - - Updated - - -

You are trying to make them double dip. Which isn't going to happen. The perks buff the base spell damage by 20% then DS does 30% of each tick every time it does damage. It's not actually corruption or UA that's doing damage when DS ticks thats why it's listed under another section in combat logs.

Well, both 1/3rd and 30% aren't correct values, it's supposed to be 40%, like it says in the tooltip of Drain Soul. And no, nobody wants it to double-dip, but i think it should definitely benefit from the perks.

[DesireKT]

The tooltip I was looking at said 30% apologies bug with Warcraft logs showing the tooltip for Malefic Grasp led me in the wrong direction looking at the logs. should just wait till after raid time to look through logs next time .

But if anyone wants to see the actual math then yes here it is using that log.

Corruption max ticks 1200
1200/1.2=1000
1000*.4=400
DS Max Corruption ticks 400

UA max ticks 1452
1452/1.2=1210
1210*.4=484
DS Max UA ticks 485

Agony max tick 1769
1769*.4=707.6
DS Max Agony Tick 700


It actually looks like Agony is only getting roughly 39.6% damage per tick from DS as well or there's some other ambiguous problems lying around.
700/1769=.3957


Anyone also notice the Agony perk says 14 stacks not 12 right now?

[Bonkura]

I played Affli for 5 mins on Beta until I noticed Soul Swap costs a soul shard and got reminded that you can't snapshot dots anymore. Such a dull spec. RIP in peace.

[DesireKT]

Really want to enjoy demo so I've been trying to do most everything with it and have neglected Affliction as well. Without the numbers tuned it's pointless even if SS wasn't nerfed.

[Zharradan]

R.I.P affliction, 2004-2014 you will be missed

[Baconeggcheese]

I think people have just forgotten how to manage dots properly, I've seen a few posters moaning that they think UA doesn't last long enough. That they struggle with Haunt. It's weird. Snapshots/SS clearly ruined expectations of how a dot spec plays.

I've felt that way about UA for this whole xpac. I'm lazy that way.

I mostly hate what they're doing with aff because such seemingly small changes dramatically changes the playstyle and pacing that the spec has evolved into over the course of the xpac. I'm sure warlocks will be fine with some tuning passes etc, but I can't stand what they've done to aff after I got comfy with the QoL that MoP provided.

[KeystoneTRN]

I mostly hate what they're doing with aff because such seemingly small changes dramatically changes the playstyle and pacing that the spec has evolved into over the course of the xpac. I'm sure warlocks will be fine with some tuning passes etc, but I can't stand what they've done to aff after I got comfy with the QoL that MoP provided.

The loss of DoT snapshotting should've been enough to curtail the current playstyle of "line up all procs, then attempt to maintain that stack of DoTs for as long as humanly possible", the Soul Swap change was basically a second kick in the teeth. Currently playing Aff on the beta raid fights is among the most brainless things ever, with no interesting procs to manage and a rotation that takes almost no thought to maintain, as you generate enough shards in raids that Haunt/Empowered Haunt should always be up. You could train a toddler to play Aff on a Patchwerk fight at 100% effectiveness in WoD right now.

I don't know what to do to fix the spec. It desperately needs something to alter it's current playstyle, preferably in a meaningful way of using your limited resource (and a reliable way of generating them). A new (or old, but reworked) damage spell would also be welcome. I don't understand how they've left in the option for other classes to choose a higher skill cap for greater reward, but removed almost all of the skill in what was (at one time) among the hardest specs to play at maximum effectiveness. It's depressing, and has made me consider re-rolling for the first time since vanilla.

[Schirmy]

I've always wanted Siphon Life to return as a dot; it gives another dot to manage and fits the flavor of the spec. Although it seems Affy's problems lie in the mechanics and another dot might not fix that.

[Baconeggcheese]

The loss of DoT snapshotting should've been enough to curtail the current playstyle of "line up all procs, then attempt to maintain that stack of DoTs for as long as humanly possible", the Soul Swap change was basically a second kick in the teeth. Currently playing Aff on the beta raid fights is among the most brainless things ever, with no interesting procs to manage and a rotation that takes almost no thought to maintain, as you generate enough shards in raids that Haunt/Empowered Haunt should always be up. You could train a toddler to play Aff on a Patchwerk fight at 100% effectiveness in WoD right now.

I don't know what to do to fix the spec. It desperately needs something to alter it's current playstyle, preferably in a meaningful way of using your limited resource (and a reliable way of generating them). A new (or old, but reworked) damage spell would also be welcome. I don't understand how they've left in the option for other classes to choose a higher skill cap for greater reward, but removed almost all of the skill in what was (at one time) among the hardest specs to play at maximum effectiveness. It's depressing, and has made me consider re-rolling for the first time since vanilla.

Oh believe me I know... and its depressing and frustrating to play on the beta right now. I'm seriously considering rerolling as well as I've always hated demo and I hate what they're doing with aff / destro.

If they wanted to remove snapshots they should have just done that and not done the blizzard thing of attacking a problem at multiple angles and overnerfing in the process like they do with everything. They had the specs playing rather smooth by the end of MoP, why they're doing this stuff now is beyond me.

[Nivrax]

All I want (for Christmas) is Cata-like Affli back, perhaps mixed a bit with MoP rehash.

- SS on 30 sec CD, no shard cost
- SB:SS still possible for 1 shard, triggering cooldown
- Haunt tied to shard regen like it's now, always make sure to have one or two ready for procs
- Improved Soulfire is already option in WoD talents
- Shadowbolt filler, 2,5 sec cast
- Glyph turning Shadowbolt into Malefic Grasp, 2,5sec channel, same dps, deals static damage like Mind Flay
- old Nightfall back, stackable to 2, the more Corruptions you roll on targets the better proc rate, not normalized to one target (keep Shard regen as on live though)
- Nightfall makes next SB instant or Malefic Grasp hasted by ~70% to base 1.5sec and castable on move + non interruptable
- Drain Soul keeps 1 shard refund on dying mob as well 1 shard if you channel it uninterrupted for 6 seconds. Deals static damage in slow, 3 sec ticks. Deals ton of damage under execute range so you can actually see and feel improvement by big numbers flying on screen.
- Shadow Embrace can go die in fire for all I care
- Dark Soul is dps cooldown we lacked before

You got MoP/WoD Haunt that you use to respond to procs. You get toned multidotting. You get toned shard regen, but with possibility to generate them if RNG is on bad side (at cost of dps). You got both viable options of casted or channeled filler as well as proc that adds some mobility/small change of pace. Multi vs single target dotting can be gauged by strength of Haunt debuff.

Nothing of that will happen buy hey, man can dream?

[Norp]

they seem to have changed the Agony perk from 12 to 14. Just noticed today when I was leveling and testing stuff.



I'll check the other perks for changes.

Edit: only stacking to 12 ingame, may be a tooltip error

[KeystoneTRN]

Probably not, unless you reintroduced it as something akin to sPriests Devouring Plague (High Damage / Short Duration, gated by secondary resource).

Someone also suggested a spell that consumes all current DoTs on the target to deal extremely high damage over a short duration to the target (Agony stacking to 12 probably prevents this from working, as it would be a net loss in most situations).

I dunno, this is probably broken, but you could probably tweak it to get where you want.

Rend Soul - You flay the soul of your target over X seconds, granting 1 soul shard per tick(Y total). Ticks from Rend Soul always critically strike. Similar base damage to Demon Bolt / Chaos Bolt. Z Cooldown. Costs Y shards to cast.

Glyph of Rend Soul - Your Rend Soul no longer has a cooldown, but costs 1 additional shard.
Alternative Glyph of Rend Soul - Your Rend Soul now has up to 2 charges, but has a slightly increased cooldown.

At moderate-high haste, it becomes shard positive (or shard neutral with the first glyph).

I feel like a short, powerful duration DoT that also costs (a) shard(s) is a neat way to add at least some depth to a spec that desperately needs it, and with the ability for it to (possibly) normalize shard generation over the course of a fight would go a long way to fix at least some of Aff's current issues. We still desperately need some form of direct damage for PvP (just bring back Fel Flame).

My idea could also be bad and I should feel bad. *shrug*

[Deleted]

All I want (for Christmas) is Cata-like Affli back, perhaps mixed a bit with MoP rehash.

- SS on 30 sec CD, no shard cost
- SB:SS still possible for 1 shard, triggering cooldown
- Haunt tied to shard regen like it's now, always make sure to have one or two ready for procs
- Improved Soulfire is already option in WoD talents
- Shadowbolt filler, 2,5 sec cast
- Glyph turning Shadowbolt into Malefic Grasp, 2,5sec channel, same dps, deals static damage like Mind Flay
- old Nightfall back, stackable to 2, the more Corruptions you roll on targets the better proc rate, not normalized to one target (keep Shard regen as on live though)
- Nightfall makes next SB instant or Malefic Grasp hasted by ~70% to base 1.5sec and castable on move + non interruptable
- Drain Soul keeps 1 shard refund on dying mob as well 1 shard if you channel it uninterrupted for 6 seconds. Deals static damage in slow, 3 sec ticks. Deals ton of damage under execute range so you can actually see and feel improvement by big numbers flying on screen.
- Shadow Embrace can go die in fire for all I care
- Dark Soul is dps cooldown we lacked before

You got MoP/WoD Haunt that you use to respond to procs. You get toned multidotting. You get toned shard regen, but with possibility to generate them if RNG is on bad side (at cost of dps). You got both viable options of casted or channeled filler as well as proc that adds some mobility/small change of pace. Multi vs single target dotting can be gauged by strength of Haunt debuff.

Nothing of that will happen buy hey, man can dream?

most of these things would officially kill afflic for me, hated cata afflic like the plague.

[Nivrax]

most of these things would officially kill afflic for me, hated cata afflic like the plague.

Funny, because if you took Malefic as glyph you are looking at WoD Affliction, except you get movement proc, Soul Swap that is usable (vs one you will never use) and fillers that deal damage without needing to fully dot something. Mechanicly it's same, just have working toolset.

[Count Zero]

they seem to have changed the Agony perk from 12 to 14. Just noticed today when I was leveling and testing stuff.



I'll check the other perks for changes.

Edit: only stacking to 12 ingame, may be a tooltip error

Tooltip's been bugged since beta started. I reported it to them long ago

[Deleted]

i literally never used soul swap back then, like never. imp soul fire was annoying as hell(yes, SB:haunt is sorta the same but with a rather steap cost), shadow bolt filler made absolutely no sense to me and any of the option you wrote that would increase movement wont happen with blizz' current stance on movement dps.