WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[xskarma]

Changes have just been announced, but Demo (or Warlock) changes are not among them. I was never a believer that the Demo nerfs would be revoked, seeing nothing more then standerd fare "If something is wrong we'll fix it" out of Blizz, but being completely left out of this seemingly pretty thorough round of balance changes for level 100 only strengthens my belief that we will not be seeing balance changes to Demo before it's too late and we've allready started gearing in WoD.

[Zevoa]

There's 5 weeks. Be patient.

[xskarma]

There's 5 weeks. Be patient.

I'd prefer to not spend 3 weeks gearing my toon for Destro/Affli before final balance changes possibly mess up the picture again. I don't mind things being adjusted at the last minute, but they need to be emergency fixes not intended balance passes when they've seen everyone go through dungeon content.

Then again I noticed that WW Monks were not included in the balance changes and people testing content on beta seem to indicate WW is pretty damn strong there. So maybe this isn't as thorough a balance pass as I thought it was. We'll see.

[Baconeggcheese]

I'd prefer to not spend 3 weeks gearing my toon for Destro/Affli before final balance changes possibly mess up the picture again.

What's the difference?

[Zevoa]

Great coding blizzard, thanks for the 50% increased damage and spell haste ((:

[xskarma]

What's the difference?

The difference is that we have no idea what Blizzard's plan IS with balancing, but saying we have 5 weeks to get it right is in my opinion not right. Blizzard should aim to have a balanced game when the expansion launches and only in the case where they royally screw up should they go in and fix it before raids start.

I'm pretty sure we have enough sims and testing from Highmaul from people to say that things are not balanced at the moment, so I don't think this is one of the cases where they can claim ignorance and come back just before raids start to fix it. I'm not expecting major buffs, but enough to at least make Demo a viable option in certain situations.

- - - Updated - - -

Great coding blizzard, thanks for the 50% increased damage and spell haste ((:

Ruh roh, what happened?

[Zevoa]

Ruh roh, what happened?

Black Magic.

[xskarma]

Black Magic.

The old enchant?

[Brusalk]

The old enchant?

Bug on the last boss in highmaul where Demo can get the damage/haste buff for the rest of the fight from the warmages by pets getting the warmage aura and then applying it to the master when GrimSyn procs.

[Zevoa]

Bug on the last boss in highmaul where Demo can get the damage/haste buff for the rest of the fight from the warmages by pets getting the warmage aura and then applying it to the master when GrimSyn procs.

Wow.

[xskarma]

Bug on the last boss in highmaul where Demo can get the damage/haste buff for the rest of the fight from the warmages by pets getting the warmage aura and then applying it to the master when GrimSyn procs.

Aha.

Wow.

Sorry he spoiled it for you. I admit I had allready looked up Black Magic mats to see if I could easily put it on an old weapon for fun if you HAD meant that.

[Brusalk]

I couldn't tell if Zevoa was just going to be a tease or not. :P

[Zevoa]

[Jessicka]

I'd prefer to not spend 3 weeks gearing my toon for Destro/Affli before final balance changes possibly mess up the picture again. I don't mind things being adjusted at the last minute, but they need to be emergency fixes not intended balance passes when they've seen everyone go through dungeon content.

We'd all like that, but history tells us that there's invariably balance tweaks for 2-3 weeks after a tier launches; after an expansion it stretches to more like 6 weeks.

It's just the nature of generally balancing around content rather than simulation/modelling/bots'. Those are things they need data for that PTRs and Betas don't have the participation to produce. It'd look like shit for them to argue a spec that's underperforming "would be fine in fights that don't exist at the moment"; it's indefensible.

Then again I noticed that WW Monks were not included in the balance changes and people testing content on beta seem to indicate WW is pretty damn strong there. So maybe this isn't as thorough a balance pass as I thought it was. We'll see.

There are a lot of classes not included. And as above, you were expecting thorough tuning with still 2 weeks to go before release? Before MoP they didn't even start tuning until this point

[Deleted]

Changes have just been announced, but Demo (or Warlock) changes are not among them. I was never a believer that the Demo nerfs would be revoked, seeing nothing more then standerd fare "If something is wrong we'll fix it" out of Blizz, but being completely left out of this seemingly pretty thorough round of balance changes for level 100 only strengthens my belief that we will not be seeing balance changes to Demo before it's too late and we've allready started gearing in WoD.

It's pretty clear that blizz will take their usual approach to balancing demonology for each raid - allow one, maybe two, weeks of Mythic progression and gearing, then whip out the nerf bat or buff wand and start pummeling away.

[Rayaleith]

Did not notice if anyone commented on this, did you see the nerfs/buffs in the front page?

[Deleted]

Did not notice if anyone commented on this, did you see the nerfs/buffs in the front page?

Yeah, and even if there is no Warlock section in that list, from Celestalon PoV they buffed the warlock

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...65112631365633

[Jessicka]

Yeah, and even if there is no Warlock section in that list, from Celestalon PoV they buffed the warlock

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...65112631365633

So, tuning isn't finished, they fixed a bug, and now they're waiting to see if that bugfix is enough to bring damage back in line. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, then they'll buff some more.

[Deleted]

So, tuning isn't finished, they fixed a bug, and now they're waiting to see if that bugfix is enough to bring damage back in line. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, then they'll buff some more.

what worries me is that they would even think it would work. its like fixing the radio in a car and then thinking/hoping it will got faster.

[xskarma]

what worries me is that they would even think it would work. its like fixing the radio in a car and then thinking/hoping it will got faster.

This particular bug was preventing Soulfire from being effective in Meta form, so this is not a case of them fixing a bug that has nothing to do with our DPS. Now, we've been steering towards using Demonbolt and barely if ever casting Soulfire in Meta anyway, but in theory if we used Soulfire now it would definitely be a damage increase.

I'm not sure what Blizzard thinks it's seeing in their data that makes them think that Demo is okay. It might be that the people that have been testing Demo are wrong about how Demo is performing, but I kinda trust posters from this forum having been in actual raid conditions with other competent people and having seen the results on the meters over Blizz's own abstract data that takes into account what people are doing running their dailies and other stuff as well.

Blizzard saying Demo is okay is just as much a flawed measure as SimC is, since their goal for balance is game wide, and not just aimed at raiding, and that gives me every bit of reason to be wary of them being right about this supposed balance.