WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[Deleted]

its hardly spammable, if you think that then you havent actually played destro. the problem with your suggestion is that it greatly hinders their single target execute which is perfectly fine, based on on its multitarget execute and would need a rather significant buff to offset the dmg lost on single target executes which is actually the majority of the fights in SoO and im fairly sure that destro is balanced around that fact.

If you think it's not spammable than you don't play it properly.
Cooldown on the ember regen from SB won't effect singletarget dps at all.

[Deleted]

afaik you dont regen 1 full ember every second, atleast not on live and you wont on beta either, so it wont be spammable, coz at best even on beta with charred remains you will need to cast incinerates between each shadowburn on executes, even on multitarget/aoe its debatable but if you think that a cooldown on the ember regen from SB wont affect single target dps then you're deluding yourself. ill make it simple for you: fewer embers = lower dps. either way, this is a thread on demo, and we're getting offtopic.

[Deleted]

afaik you dont regen 1 full ember every second, atleast not on live and you wont on beta either, so it wont be spammable, coz at best even on beta with charred remains you will need to cast incinerates between each shadowburn on executes, even on multitarget/aoe its debatable but if you think that a cooldown on the ember regen from SB wont affect single target dps then you're deluding yourself. ill make it simple for you: fewer embers = lower dps. either way, this is a thread on demo, and we're getting offtopic.

Regen doesn't happen if target doesn't die so singletarget it has no difference in dps.
And on live it regens enough so it becomes spammable on sniping.

[Deleted]

Regen doesn't happen if target doesn't die so singletarget it has no difference in dps.
And on live it regens enough so it becomes spammable on sniping.

you sorta answers why you cant spam SB yourself right there, after all you dont solely snipe SBs. either way, this will be my last post on the matter, getting way offtopic now.

[Moruff]

The default rotation for a 'constant scenario' is smooth enough, yet applying the single-target AoE onto majorly 'unpredictable-target-appearances' isn't.
Using the limited charge based system for random AoE is clunky, as you use it for single target as well. No exceptions. Which most add packs are, but this problem isn't apparent when you always have the cleave targets 'ready.'

- The second problem is that Demo is tuned around this max theoretical ceiling. If you cannot nail/ get maximum performance out of the spec, which in many cases happens, you are not competitive, even for single target (as you really gain a lot of fury for cleaving effectively). Loosing 500+ fury for a missed HoG cleave timing is seemingly retarded as you 'couldn't' control that. (+ the fast tick-frequency, high damage and fury-gain on kills being likely/ which is ultimately more effective when you apply two charges for securing kills + damage).

Missing these cleave opportunities degrades your performance overwhelmingly for no beneficial reason when comparing to other classes that can apply equally strong AoE at ease.

Do you mean for pvp? In pve, it's really predictable to know when adds are coming. Pretty much all add spawns are on timers. Only thing I can think of this tier that doesn't follow a timer is Protectors and Norushen, but you can take other cues to know when adds in those fights are coming up. I think you're touching on the fact that the charge system creates a slightly higher skill cap, and yet when someone can hit that cap, it is only on par with destro or even subpar to affl. I seem to have read somewhere that blizz is aware of demo being a bit harder to manage, so hopefully that means they will give it more reward down the road.

It actually is similar to feral right now, where the priority system can get quite complex. Couple that with being ready to respond instantly to rppm trinket procs and playing perfectly is going to be a very rare occurance. However, mastering a rotation is just the first step. It's always going to come down to mastering the encounter and how well you can take advantage of the different timers in the fight.

[Nighthaven-]

Do you mean for pvp? In pve, it's really predictable to know when adds are coming. Pretty much all add spawns are on timers. Only thing I can think of this tier that doesn't follow a timer is Protectors and Norushen, but you can take other cues to know when adds in those fights are coming up. I think you're touching on the fact that the charge system creates a slightly higher skill cap, and yet when someone can hit that cap, it is only on par with destro or even subpar to affl. I seem to have read somewhere that blizz is aware of demo being a bit harder to manage, so hopefully that means they will give it more reward down the road.

It actually is similar to feral right now, where the priority system can get quite complex. Couple that with being ready to respond instantly to rppm trinket procs and playing perfectly is going to be a very rare occurance. However, mastering a rotation is just the first step. It's always going to come down to mastering the encounter and how well you can take advantage of the different timers in the fight.

It's mainly about many, but not all situations in PvE - as in PvP targets are 'always' present until their death, and then that engagement is concluded (even for engagements inside a BG).
You are onto it, but I'm mainly stating that the 30s interval for optimal HoG usage onto cleave-targets doesn't fit in circumstances where the adds may only live for a short-while. If you delay your HoG charges for these cleave opportunities, was it really worth it? If you delay, you lose a significant amount of your potency, especially you had major procs up then for single-target, but you'll lose them if delay HoG for the cleave.

The problem with Demo is that it is on par with numbers with these perfect alignments and you didn't delay HoG for so long that you overall lost some over the course of the fight, yet other classes do not need to halt their single target rotation to that degree (if any) for their cleave/ AoE abilities.
They can activate them at will and still have optimal default rotation, unlike Demo which cannot do that in many circumstances, yet is still evenly tuned around it.

[Shayan]

That's my main struggle with Demo. Saying that Demo is poorly represented by top locks because Aff/Destro are over tuned is only part truth and TBH a piss poor answer for somebody like him to give over a medium such as twitter where you only have limited capacity to articulate yourself.

Demo has great AoE, but Demo has to plan for AoE and allocate a ton of resources to do that AoE. You can toggle F&B on with 25% max resources and go to town, ending in many cases with 100% resources. Demo, you have to bank significantly more than 25% resources and generally leave AoE phases tapped dry on fury. Any fight where you have low life adds that are not clumped up, there is no such thing as cleave... corruption for 1 tick? Doom may not even tick...Spend fury on Insta ToC? oh I know, i'll hit him with a molten core soul fire once he gets below 20% hea....oh its dead.

Very well said Soulzar. I totally agree with u on this. I recently opened a thread on EU blizzard warlock forum. regarding this. unfortunately I can't post links atm cuz i'm new to MMO. but if anyone who also has any constructive feedback regarding demo locks, I invite u to also post on ur opinions on thread " Demonology warlocks in Warlords of Draenor" under the author "Shayan". My goal is to make sure our voice is heard.
I have also addressed many of our concerns over similar demonology issues like lack of resource refund, being sluggish on target switch, and also being so cooldwon dependant that it actually hurts.

[DesireKT]

Anyone else notice the Molten Core Perk isn't working sub level 100?

[Deleted]

I've not actually played much lock/demo on live but I was testing it out on the beta. I kept getting to like 6/7 stacks of soulfire or something and even getting to 2/3 when I cast soul fire it wouldn't use up the proc. This only happened in dungeons. I'm guessing this is a bug right?

[Dutchlock]

I've not actually played much lock/demo on live but I was testing it out on the beta. I kept getting to like 6/7 stacks of soulfire or something and even getting to 2/3 when I cast soul fire it wouldn't use up the proc. This only happened in dungeons. I'm guessing this is a bug right?

May sound stupid but is the mob your attacking once you get to 2/3 MC proc's sub 25% health?

[Deleted]

I don't actually remember. But if the mob is below 25% do the procs not get used? If so, that probably is the case then. I am a noob

[Dutchlock]

I don't actually remember. But if the mob is below 25% do the procs not get used? If so, that probably is the case then. I am a noob

So Basically when you ToC,SB,SF a target that's Sub 25% you auto proc MC. So as it appears your not consuming a change because as you spend it you regain it so yes to the noob eye it appears your not using the proc when in fact you expelling it and gaining it so fast you don't notice it.

[Hellfury]

HOG now hits like a beast, and now more than ever using the charges to extend the duration properly will be rewarding, on the other hand Doom and imps both hit like wet noodles

[striderZA]

Very well said Soulzar. I totally agree with u on this. I recently opened a thread on EU blizzard warlock forum. regarding this. unfortunately I can't post links atm cuz i'm new to MMO. but if anyone who also has any constructive feedback regarding demo locks, I invite u to also post on ur opinions on thread " Demonology warlocks in Warlords of Draenor" under the author "Shayan". My goal is to make sure our voice is heard.
I have also addressed many of our concerns over similar demonology issues like lack of resource refund, being sluggish on target switch, and also being so cooldwon dependant that it actually hurts.

Just no...

[Chrispotter]

Yeh HOG's damage is really high right now.
Anyone got any math on the best use of Demon bolt? With no math at all so far I figure its worth casting twice if you start at 1000, and under 500 fury soulfires are better use.

[Leyl]

Yeh HOG's damage is really high right now.
Anyone got any math on the best use of Demon bolt? With no math at all so far I figure its worth casting twice if you start at 1000, and under 500 fury soulfires are better use.

Sounds about right; or maybe just one time instead of two. Because you only get that refund one time. So, you have to weigh other spells (Touch, Soul Fire) vs. that damage PLUS the refund you lose. You're supposed to burn one off, then burn down to 40 fury, get the refund, pop out of Meta, build back up. You'll start at 340 in this case. Save it for trinkets, procs, and the line up with cool downs.

[Deleted]

The othet side of the coin is that only casting one Demonbolt and the 4 or 5 Soulfires you have still requires you to ToC for over 10 seconds, likely with no Dark Soul up unless you didn't glyph it. 2 casts would give back less fury, but you'd also go back to generating it faster.

[Imnick]

They're going to change demonbolt in some fashion soon so I wouldn't start doing any particularly in-depth maths on it.

[Hellfury]

They're going to change demonbolt in some fashion soon so I wouldn't start doing any particularly in-depth maths on it.

good news, cause atm you just cast it every 1min paired with glyphed DS when on max fury, and to cast something every 1min we have cataclysm for that

[Schirmy]

Grimoire of Sacrifice is no longer available to Demonology Warlocks and has a new talent, Grimoire of Synergy in its place.
Grimoire of Synergy: When the Warlock or their demon deals damage, there is a chance to trigger Demonic Synergy, granting the other one 15% increased damage for 15 seconds.