WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[luckydevours]

How much of imaginary haste is needed to get doom to tick every 10s?

50%. This is how it is calculated: 15 sec / (1 + 50%) = 10 sec

[ataraxia123]

lol massive Demo nerfs

[sugarfree]

Ok, I know they said the next few builds will be a mess for Demo, but does Shadow Bolt really need that? Seriously, it's like 2.5 sec cast and hits for shit. I get Soul Fire since it hits decently while in Meta, but shadow bolt? Damn, is this because it is linked to Touch of Chaos?

They want casters to cast yet the damage is not even rewarding.

[Crisius]

No clue what they're doing. Hopefully there'll be some clarification on this.

[sasofrass]

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...91932778635264

It's like they don't even look at actual player data. How was demo even remotely overpowered? All of its damage came from meta-cataclysm, which was fixed. Now I literally just don't understand these nerfs. Actual player data shows demo basically middle pack. I don't even understand where they get numbers pointing to demo being so far ahead. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Demonbolt may as well never be used, it's damage doesn't even compare to cataclysm, not to mention it is such a high fury cost it's basically pointless now.

It's just so frustrating when you actually have tons of players giving feedback and showing logs of demo, tons of raid testing where demo is middle pack even with high end raiders and then Blizzard just randomly from left field just throws a huge nerf and gives absolutely no evidence as to how it could possibly be overpowered. "It was." Cool, thanks, now go ahead and give us YOUR numbers that you're looking at, give us YOUR tools, and let us see how the hell you are coming up with such an absurd conclusion.

[Advo]

I like to think they'll tune it back up when they realize the spec is now about on par with smiting disc priests, but it might be painful until they do so.

At least demo gave some choice and flexibility, now its aff for movement fights or destro for turret fights. Don't like feeling pigeonholed.

[Baconeggcheese]

I was competing on my lock with my guild cheesing the fuckshit out of gear with demo being bugged to shit and the imps not attacking most of the time.

It's really hard to look at player data when the players providing the data aren't using fair comparisons.

If you guys have logs of guilds using entirely premade chars with no cheese items and no cheese gems to test fights then we can get some objective information to throw at celestalon.

But I'm willing to bet any of your respective guilds + most of the guilds we've been looking at aren't doing that at all, I'd be willing to bet they're cheesing the shit out of everything like most people are.

[Zevoa]

Undocumented imp/felguard damage nerf?

[Xyronic]

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...91932778635264

It's like they don't even look at actual player data. How was demo even remotely overpowered? All of its damage came from meta-cataclysm, which was fixed. Now I literally just don't understand these nerfs. Actual player data shows demo basically middle pack. I don't even understand where they get numbers pointing to demo being so far ahead. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Demonbolt may as well never be used, it's damage doesn't even compare to cataclysm, not to mention it is such a high fury cost it's basically pointless now.

It's just so frustrating when you actually have tons of players giving feedback and showing logs of demo, tons of raid testing where demo is middle pack even with high end raiders and then Blizzard just randomly from left field just throws a huge nerf and gives absolutely no evidence as to how it could possibly be overpowered. "It was." Cool, thanks, now go ahead and give us YOUR numbers that you're looking at, give us YOUR tools, and let us see how the hell you are coming up with such an absurd conclusion.

I'm not quite sure why you think demonology was so bad. For the last round of mythic testing demonology was by far the best single target spec.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

I'm not quite sure why you think demonology was so bad. For the last round of mythic testing demonology was by far the best single target spec.

Whatever it was the nerfs was simply too much:,(
Blizzard balancing in a nutshell = Always overdo it.

[Zinnin]

Whatever it was the nerfs was simply too much:,(
Blizzard balancing in a nutshell = Always overdo it.

I totally expected a 20-25% nerf after the last round of testing, however so much of Demo's damage came from the spec having bugs that increased damage so I highly doubt it needed a nerf as much as they think.

If we end up damage wise where I have been expecting (midpack) and continue to have no raid utility (they think gateway is huge) then there is literally no reason to bring a warlock to a raid.

[PickleballAce]

I totally expected a 20-25% nerf after the last round of testing, however so much of Demo's damage came from the spec having bugs that increased damage so I highly doubt it needed a nerf as much as they think.

If we end up damage wise where I have been expecting (midpack) and continue to have no raid utility (they think gateway is huge) then there is literally no reason to bring a warlock to a raid.

We'll still have the most important raid utility of them all:

Summoning Stones, to make sure your Hunters and Mages are in the raid on time!

[sugarfree]

I totally expected a 20-25% nerf after the last round of testing, however so much of Demo's damage came from the spec having bugs that increased damage so I highly doubt it needed a nerf as much as they think.

If we end up damage wise where I have been expecting (midpack) and continue to have no raid utility (they think gateway is huge) then there is literally no reason to bring a warlock to a raid.

And you know for a fact that they are too quick with nerfing but too slow with buffing. It's like they don't want to admit they're wrong and they HESITANTLY buff you. Been there, done that.

[Jessicka]

	Stacks	CT	Fury	D (1kSP)	D+Mastery	DPCT	DPFC	DPCTPFC	DPFCPCT
SF		2	80	680	802.4	401.20	10.03	5.02	5.015
DB	0	2	80	1500	1770	885.00	22.13	11.06	11.0625
DB+1	1	2	160	1800	2124	1062.00	13.28	6.64	6.6375
DB+2	2	2	240	2100	2478	1239.00	10.33	5.16	5.1625
DB+3	3	2	320	2400	2832	1416.00	8.85	4.43	4.425
DB+4	4	2	400	4500	5310	2655.00	13.28	6.64	6.6375
DB+5	5	2	480	3000	3540	1770.00	7.38	3.69	3.6875
DB+6	6	2	560	3300	3894	1947.00	6.95	3.48	3.476785714
DB+7	7	2	640	3600	4248	2124.00	6.64	3.32	3.31875
DB+8	8	2	720	3900	4602	2301.00	6.39	3.20	3.195833333
DB+9	9	2	800	4200	4956	2478.00	6.20	3.10	3.0975
DB+10	10	2	880	4500	5310	2655.00	6.03	3.02	3.017045455
TOC		1	40	400	472	472.00	11.80	11.80	11.8

So ToC is still almost 2x as effective as Soul Fire, and importantly, even more effective than Demonbolt now. /facepalm

[Deleted]

I agree that Demo was too strong in the last build.
I always dominated raid testing, using the level 100 pvp premade just like about 95% of my guild did. I was always slightly ahead (substracting damage done to prismatic crystals from mages in skada) and at the same time my imps went afk and something about our mastery wasn't right. So with the bugs fixed my dps would have been even further ahead so i would consider that pretty op, i'd agree with blizzard here.

But I was under the impression, that the soulfire nerf in the last build, which made no sense at all on its own, was kind of the landmark they would use to base all of our other direct damage abilities on, so our rotation would be fixed again, with a massive nerf on paper combined with fixed bugs, resulting in only a slight nerf, bringing us in line with the rest of the specs.

So what they did was: nerf everything (i was actually okay with it while reading the notes) AND soulfire again, which makes no sense. What is this and why are they doing it. Now we still have the same fucked up rotation (and a worse demon bolt talent), just with way less dps.

[Alarinth]

I expect this to simply be a part of the phase Celestalon referred to that would not make much sense. Hope this will pass soon...

[Jessicka]

I expect this to simply be a part of the phase Celestalon referred to that would not make much sense. Hope this will pass soon...

The problem is that it's giving them massively unreliable data, because the spec simply isn't being tested as it's being intended to be played. That ToC is so massively overpowered is creating an illusion of super-mobility, and greatly inflating numbers they see in their logs.

"As intended" we probably only do need a 25% nerf, but when people are testing by spamming 1 overpowered ability, then looking at logs might give the impression that 33% is correct. When that ability is instant, that too gives people confidence to use it, not see much of any loss, and offer up feedback to say 'mobility is just fine'.

[Alarinth]

Yeah, I wholly agree with that - what I am currently hoping though, is that they're further along in demo than what we see in the current build, cause like you said, nothing makes sense or is useful in terms of demo testing at this stage. It'd make more sense to repair/rebuild the bits and pieces that malfunction before releasing it live (beta), and just do a small tuning like they did this build to temp-fix the scale on beta while they patch up the real deal.

Wow, I'm an optimist.

[Jessicka]

When we're 4-6 weeks from seeing 6.0 go live, I think this is an absolutely fucking egregious oversight. Most, if not all of the feedback and data from the past months for this spec is frankly, useless. It's very late to put this right and gain anything useful from it.

[Shiennar]

With the amount of testing left before launch Im almost worried there wont be time to fix the technical issues that the spec has. Everything from Imps afking to this most recent pressing issue where taking talents will result in a net-dps loss. Heck, they are even saying they are intending for talents in one row to be competing with eachother, at least have their own niches. How is this even true? The only viable option as far as I can tell is Cataclysm. Servitude is a joke, and now Demonbolt is like throwing cotton in comparison to our other options.

Its less than two months untill we get the pre-expansion pack, and for each iteration passing I get more and more worried. I highly doubt this is the iterations that Celestalon talked about when he said 'things will look wonky'. If it was he would give that as reasoning instead of going all 'OUR NUMBERS SAY YOU ARE WRONG >' to people with concerns.