WoD Beta Destruction Discussion

[Harsesis]

Something I noticed while working on my destro model. Conflag is currently still using the old system of starting off at a base range instead of a constant like every other spell I've checked so far.

[Tarthlock]

Cataclysm? Why would you think a 3 second cast nuke would be good for spinning? It doesn't do anything until the cast finishes, then doesn't do anything after the cast finishes.

Charred remains will be the go to simply for the synergy with the ember tap talent. The amount of self-healing destro locks have with that combo at the moment is INSANE, and I'd be very surprised if it wasn't nerfed. It drops your damage to almost zero, but that doesn't matter all that much when you essentially can't die.

RoF doesn't interrupt the capping of a flag and i feel like once a minute 3 second cast spammed on the flag would be a strong choice for defending caps, Charred remains does seem like the go to lvl 100 talent right now based on the ember regen and aoe chaos bolts/ember tap synergy

[Sparklebeard]

1. Filler spell that's usable while moving and provides a 30% movement speed buff
2. Nova/Blast Wave and Dragon's Breath which are AoE CCs/Gap Openers on low cooldown with a long duration
3. Blink and Blazing Speed which are both Gap Openers with additional benefits (Stun and slow break)
4. Multiple instant-cast spells which allow for even greater mobility: Meteor, Hot Streak Pyro, Inferno Blast, Combustion

And that's just the mobility (which I'm arguing about). There's also Ring of Frost/Ice Ward/Frostjaw which let you get away through different means and in different situations

I suppose you have taken into consideration the basic premise that if you actually manage to deal damage to a mage, they die? Warlocks may not have as many ways to get away from us melee, but you can take a much bigger beating than a mage can.

[Lolretadin]

I suppose you have taken into consideration the basic premise that if you actually manage to deal damage to a mage, they die? Warlocks may not have as many ways to get away from us melee, but you can take a much bigger beating than a mage can.

Damage avoidance is better than damage soak.

[Phoenexis]

I suppose you have taken into consideration the basic premise that if you actually manage to deal damage to a mage, they die? Warlocks may not have as many ways to get away from us melee, but you can take a much bigger beating than a mage can.

Oh really? What tools do you have as passive mitigation as a warlock compared to a mage?
Soul Link? Mages have that equivalent and it's called Flameglow
Blood Pact? Mages have Frost, Molten or Mage Armor

So much for passive mitigation...

The only thing you can bring up is Ember Tap for Destruction warlocks, and we've already discussed how it is horrible design seeing as nobody wants to be a pinata. Although remember that you have to sacrifice damage and utility to use the spell unlike mages which barely face any real consequences/choices when using their defensive tools. Also take into consideration the fact that without Charred Remains ember generation will be extremely slow seeing as we do not benefit from all the tools that I've listed for mages and therefore cannot get off casts as easily. And if you were to take Charred Remains you'd be a useless self-healer seeing as nobody is going to let you get off Chaos Bolts as your main source of damage in arena...

[Grizelda]

I didn't realize how much I would miss our current 4 piece.

That extra proc added a lot of interest to an otherwise bland rotation.

I can't see myself being very interested in either Destro or this game come WoD. I'm not quite sure who they are designing it for, but it's not me. Good luck guys!

[Deleted]

I feel a great disturbance in the force.

[Deleted]

Oh really? What tools do you have as passive mitigation as a warlock compared to a mage?
Soul Link? Mages have that equivalent and it's called Flameglow
Blood Pact? Mages have Frost, Molten or Mage Armor

Of course you should also mention Flameglow absolutely sucks, and noone ever picks it instead of Ice Barrier. Ice Barrier on the other hand can be dispelled/stolen easily. As far as the Mage armours are concerned, frost is the only spec that can PvP for a damn in WoD (while being considerably weaker than in 5.4), and it only has Frost armor in WoD and the only protective quality of it is the useless 30% snare on melee attackers.

So no, Mages don't have anywhere close to the mitigation of Warlocks. What they do have is a couple more escape mechanisms, but we all know noone's escaping melees in WoD, with the reduced CC and hardcore diminishes. Mages are glass cannons, and they don't have any burst whatsoever anymore. They will suck. So will Warlocks of course, but don't think the grass is greener. The name of the game is Warriors, Rogues, Ferals and DKs. In fact, in the new game it's entirely possible that a strongly self-healing pinata/punching bag is a better class than the guy who tries to kite and fails because it's nigh impossible.

[Deleted]

I didn't realize how much I would miss our current 4 piece.

That extra proc added a lot of interest to an otherwise bland rotation.

I can't see myself being very interested in either Destro or this game come WoD. I'm not quite sure who they are designing it for, but it's not me. Good luck guys!

I tweeted Celestalon this like 3 months ago but didn't get a response. Occasionally I'll play Destro in my Affliction gear with 2pc, and it just feels bland. The proc added decision making every 10 seconds. Without it you have 0 embers and 40 embers and cannot go wrong in between.

[Phoenexis]

Of course you should also mention Flameglow absolutely sucks, and noone ever picks it instead of Ice Barrier. Ice Barrier on the other hand can be dispelled/stolen easily. As far as the Mage armours are concerned, frost is the only spec that can PvP for a damn in WoD (while being considerably weaker than in 5.4), and it only has Frost armor in WoD and the only protective quality of it is the useless 30% snare on melee attackers.

So no, Mages don't have anywhere close to the mitigation of Warlocks. What they do have is a couple more escape mechanisms, but we all know noone's escaping melees in WoD, with the reduced CC and hardcore diminishes. Mages are glass cannons, and they don't have any burst whatsoever anymore. They will suck. So will Warlocks of course, but don't think the grass is greener. The name of the game is Warriors, Rogues, Ferals and DKs. In fact, in the new game it's entirely possible that a strongly self-healing pinata/punching bag is a better class than the guy who tries to kite and fails because it's nigh impossible.

You're telling me 10% more hp and healing offsets all of the tools mages have? What a joke...
I just listed you everything they have access to only in terms of mobility, I could easily list all of the active mitigation that they also have. Meanwhile all you can do is mention 1 spell and say how shit Flameglow is. And no, Frost is not the only PvP viable spec, fire has much more mobility and its only problem is dispel protection for the moment.

Also, remember that I mentioned Ember generation will not be a thing when you don't even have tools to get casts on. Remember how Destro can now only get Embers isntantly by using Conflag?
And even if that playstyle were viable, it is not enjoyable, it is retarded. And what we aim for first and foremost is enjoyable mechanics

[Zharradan]

the new incinerate effect looks way better, but i think they should make the tail a bit longer

[Gaidax]

Don't know, I am not sure about it, the fire is pretty, but it lacks the volume of old incinerate in my opinion.

[Grizelda]

It still looks horrible.

Like a weak trickle.

[Avikur]

is searing flames not working properly? it says it causes 50% more healing from ember tap and refunds 50% of it's burning ember cost, it seems to use a whole ember and not refund any?

[DesireKT]

Yep healing works this build but Ember refund is not.

[Xag]

I havent been lucky enough to get a beta inv but I have a question about destro. I keep hearing that it and affliction are boring. For destro is this just due to a lack of procs to watch? For me it becomes interesting when havoc is in play and watching procs to do massive damage with CB. For you beta testers, will good trinkets fix this problem?

Ty for any input.

[Janglybits]

I havent been lucky enough to get a beta inv but I have a question about destro. I keep hearing that it and affliction are boring. For destro is this just due to a lack of procs to watch? For me it becomes interesting when havoc is in play and watching procs to do massive damage with CB. For you beta testers, will good trinkets fix this problem?

Ty for any input.

Not having something like our current 4 piece proc to look out for is part of it. The rest comes from Charred Remains. Chaos Bolts feel rotational with it, as opposed to reactive/situational. Even without it, we generate embers really fast. With it, you're spending all the time.

[Grizelda]

The new incinerate IS looking much better then before. (I had my graphics turned way down )

[Count Zero]

The new incinerate IS looking much better then before. (I had my graphics turned way down )

Oh, did they finally tweak the update ? Guess I can just hop on to check ...

[Deleted]

New level 100 talent row just feels horrible with Destruction. Charred remains seems to be only "viable" out of the three especially when the gear progresses. They should really replace Demonic Servitude for Destruction with something else. I kind of hope That T16 4P would be talent or baked in to class.

How do you feel about set bonuses with Charred remains?

Item - Warlock T17 Destruction 2P Bonus When Immolate deals damage it has a 10% chance to generate a full Burning Ember.
Item - Warlock T17 Destruction 4P Bonus When a Burning Ember is filled up, you have a 15% chance to reduce the cast time of Chaos Bolt by 50% and cause Chaos Bolt to consume no Burning Embers when cast.

This just doesn't strike me as awesome design. "Here have this epic talent which lets you shoot more those awesome green bolts. OH BOY THERE'S MORE! take these two bonuses with you and you can Chaos bolt while you Chaos bolt." Well not literally, but you get the idea.

4p does have good synergy with Charred Remains but design is just bland in my opinion. I would rather shoot less chaos bolts which actually matter, than just spam that thing.