"Blizzard is a business"

[Bartumus22]

Nice. Enjoy the sword play.

[Raelbo]

Yeah, stuff does go up, just that's my whole theory about gas prices. Entertainment though, stays pretty much the same.

So are you trying to argue that the price of WoW should not have been affected by inflation?

Their biggest expenses are probably salaries and rent. Their costs must have been affected by inflation. Therefore their revenue should be expected to follow suit.

[Bartumus22]

So are you trying to argue that the price of WoW should not have been affected by inflation?

Their biggest expenses are probably salaries and rent. Their costs must have been affected by inflation. Therefore their revenue should be expected to follow suit.

Daffy approved.

[rda]

So are you trying to argue that the price of WoW should not have been affected by inflation?

Their biggest expenses are probably salaries and rent. Their costs must have been affected by inflation. Therefore their revenue should be expected to follow suit.

Developer productivity during the last 10 years skyrocketed. We are talking about something like 4x-5x increases here, even if we discount the "trendy" places like the web and only look at nuts and bolts. Part of it comes from better hardware, part from better tools, part from lots of research done in various areas by hundreds of thousands of people, the results of which are public, etc. That's just a fact.

Now, if in that vein we saw comparatively more or better content or same content faster, it would have been fine. But we aren't seeing any of that. I am not talking about art, we do get more and better art (and that's, incidentally, why nobody slams Blizzard's art team), I am talking about gameplay, the stuff that devs do. We aren't getting 4x-5x more gameplay. We are getting expansions of relatively constant size. Cata was trying to provide more content with the revamp of the old world, but that revamp didn't work out because it was misguided plus there was little else in Cata on top of that revamp, Cata has been known for being barren at max level. MoP was trying to provide slightly more content than usual, too, but the efforts made in earlier patches have been erased completely by the totally out-of-this-world lull after SoO. So, in the end, we are getting about the same amount of content as we did 10 years ago, maybe only slightly more.

So, let's not talk about increased costs with salaries and whatnot. If Blizzard fails to make use of the massive increases to productivity that are there, it's their fault and their fault only.

[Bartumus22]

This is where we have to agree to disagree. I think the quality of Wow has increased from Vanilla on. But each to his own.

[rda]

This is where we have to agree to disagree. I think the quality of Wow has increased from Vanilla on. But each to his own.

If you mean things like, say, the quality of raids, it would have been silly if it didn't increase. That would have meant that the results of a big part of their work over 10 years are a net negative.

I am talking about the amount of new content. *That* didn't increase at all.

[Chipies]

I don't think all the money blizzard get from subscription fees and in-game store go to only funding WoW Development, but to all of their repertoire of games... or is it?

[rda]

I don't think all the money blizzard get from subscription fees and in-game store go to only funding WoW Development, but to all of their repertoire of games... or is it?

Revenues from WoW go to other products and vice versa, yes.

[Bartumus22]

If you mean things like, say, the quality of raids, it would have been silly if it didn't increase. That would have meant that the results of a big part of their work over 10 years are a net negative.

I am talking about the amount of new content. *That* didn't increase at all.

Well, again I disagree. Pet battles. Pvp rated battlegrounds, challenge runs, transmog, dailies, scenarios, etc is a huge new amount of content. If you don't like the content, that's a different conversation.

[rda]

Well, again I disagree. Pet battles. Pvp rated battlegrounds, challenge runs, transmog, dailies, scenarios, etc is a huge new amount of content. If you don't like the content, that's a different conversation.

It's not a huge amount of new content compared to what we were getting for previous expansions. Since you are talking about pet battles, take MoP, compare it to, say, TBC, and you will see that the amount of content per month is about the same.

So, there, 10 years, massive increases in dev productivity, yet same amount of content.

And no, that's not covered by miniscule increases in quality. Is the gameplay of a hunter, say, in mid-LK really several times worse than the gameplay of a hunter today? No. No, no, no. No. There are differences, yes, some would say the old gameplay was better, but perhaps more would say the new gameplay is better, thanks to several small quality of life changes, but much better it isn't. It's about the same. That's what these numerous changes to the class over the years amounted to - the gameplay of a class/spec as a whole got maaaaaybe a little better, that's it.

[Bartumus22]

Well-that is not facts. That's opinion.

[Ragedaug]

"WELL HERPTY BLOODY DERP, BLIZZARD IS A BUSINESS! ERRYTHING IS FINE. DONT LIKE IT JESS UNSUB LOL".

I completely agree with you. Whoever responded to your complaint with the above quote was an idiot. That said, Blizzard is a business. Everything is not fine (at least not all the time). If you get to the point where you can't play it anymore, you should probably unsub.

I'm fine with people complaining. I also know Blizzard is a company and that does explain why they do some things. The main point I would agree with you on is the answer to unsub. Even Blizzard would much rather you complain than unsub. If I really like most things in a game, I will complain about the little things I don't like in hopes that they make my gaming experience even better. Unsubbing should be the last thing I do, after I've tried all available avenues to fix what I don't like, not the first thing.

[Deleted]

We have seen posts like these for years now. Not saying you are wrong, i agree with you, but Blizzard doesn't seem to change their "market strategy". The store has been flooded with trash these years and yet people still buy from it, that's what is keeping them from releasing more content, they can make that extra cash from these micro-transactions instead of the normal subscription...and yeah there will always be people saying: "if you are not ok with it, just unsub". I haven't played for all MoP, started playing again about 6 months ago, and i am still having fun, because i have plenty of things to do before WoD. I still like running old content for transmog gear, i keep farming rare mounts, i still need to finish my HC SoO progression with my guild, i have fun doing BG's with multiple characters. What i am trying to say is: there is plenty of things to do in WoW. I know not having any content for so long is bad for a game, and i really don't know how they don't realize that the WoW community is getting bored of this crap, Blizzard facebook page is flooded of irritated people, MMO-Champion is full of posts regarding the situation not to mention their own Forums. I just hope things get better in WoD and that they learn from their mistakes, if not i guess WoD will be a gigantic flop.

[Luko]

It's not a huge amount of new content compared to what we were getting for previous expansions. Since you are talking about pet battles, take MoP, compare it to, say, TBC, and you will see that the amount of content per month is about the same.

So, there, 10 years, massive increases in dev productivity, yet same amount of content.

And no, that's not covered by miniscule increases in quality. Is the gameplay of a hunter, say, in mid-LK really several times worse than the gameplay of a hunter today? No. No, no, no. No. There are differences, yes, some would say the old gameplay was better, but perhaps more would say the new gameplay is better, thanks to several small quality of life changes, but much better it isn't. It's about the same. That's what these numerous changes to the class over the years amounted to - the gameplay of a class/spec as a whole got maaaaaybe a little better, that's it.

I think you keep mistakenly using the word "content" instead of "features." The content added per expansion has grown overwhelmingly and exponentially but yes I will agree that while I'm still interested in WoD, it's definitely lacking in new features, whereas it has plenty of new content.

- - - Updated - - -

I completely agree with you. Whoever responded to your complaint with the above quote was an idiot. That said, Blizzard is a business. Everything is not fine (at least not all the time). If you get to the point where you can't play it anymore, you should probably unsub.

I'm fine with people complaining. I also know Blizzard is a company and that does explain why they do some things. The main point I would agree with you on is the answer to unsub. Even Blizzard would much rather you complain than unsub. If I really like most things in a game, I will complain about the little things I don't like in hopes that they make my gaming experience even better. Unsubbing should be the last thing I do, after I've tried all available avenues to fix what I don't like, not the first thing.

There's one part of his jocular quote that's a total fabrication- "..ERRTHING IS FINE." I don't think anyone's actually saying that, even the so-called fanbois. All we're paying for is access to their servers and we're not bound by contract in the slightest. The moment that the game becomes anything but enjoyable, you should unsub. Seriously. That's not some weird passive threat or another way to say "Dont let the door hit you on the way out!" it's the next legitimate course of action. Why the fuck would anyone pay money for something they're not enjoying?

Really though, the game doesn't owe us shit. We're not entitled to anything. They're not going to please all 7 million people every single time. In the event that some of those people are not satisfied, they should move on, even if temporarily. I've done it TONS of times. Hell, I've had an account since 2005 and I've not gone an entire year subbed EVER. Not once in nearly 10 years have I been subbed for 12 consecutive months.

Anyway, ranting aside, everything else in that statement that Saber has been working his little ego off to make fun of is entirely true. Blizzard is indeed a business and they're going to continue to make decisions that will benefit them most financially. Yes, if a person isn't happy with the state of the game or simply not having as much fun as they should, this person should indeed stop paying for it.

Nothing else to really read into, there.

[Deleted]

Things will remain as they are as long as people continue to pay. If customers don't have anything against paying ~ 15$ a month for 14 months straight with absolutely no new content, Blizzard will take it.

[Vishiz]

Here we go. This early on page 1 and Blizzard Gate Keepers are already on the defensive.


Ont: Op is right. The amount of desperate attempts to defend blizz at every turn is not only stupid, its actually harmful for the industry.

Well lets see, you open a thread saying you don't like something.... Someone else out of thousands of people on a forum with thousands of threads disagrees. Therefore everyone who disagrees is a fanboy... got it. By that logic, everyone who doesn't like any aspect of the game is just a stupid hater and should be treated as such. Oh and people liking something blizzard does, or defending something they do, is actually harmful to THE ENTIRE GAMING INDUSTRY. Better yet, it's probably harmful to human kind! we should kill anyone who agrees with blizzard VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!!!


You expect to open a thread on a discussion forum and have everyone agree with you?

CAKE VS PIE GO.

What you prefer cake? clearly a cake fanboy.

[frogger237]

Blizzard is actually a pretty good/decent company, could they be better? Yeah of course.

[Kagecamia]

At least they aren't EA lol

[Deleted]

At least they aren't EA lol

Theyre worse than EA actually..

EA releases tons of games, some are really good, some suck. As a customers Im free to pick the ones I like and dont have to keep paying EA. Blizzard on the other hand only has like 3 games and they're trying to squeeze every cent of the players who are unlucky enough to like them.

[Vishiz]

Theyre worse than EA actually..

EA releases tons of games, some are really good, some suck. As a customers Im free to pick the ones I like and dont have to keep paying EA. Blizzard on the other hand only has like 3 games and they're trying to squeeze every cent of the players who are unlucky enough to like them.

seems like a lot of opinion in that statement.

You don't HAVE to pay anything to play wow. You can find a way to trade gold for game-time if you can't afford the 15$. Nothing in the cash shop offers you even the slightest advantage over anyone else. The cash shop is purely cosmetic and just about every game there is offers some way to pay for similar things. Blizzards simply offering something for a determined amount of money, you are more than welcome to ignore it and have no affect on your game-play at all. That is unless you';re trying to argue that people are to dumb to decide what to do with their own money, and that they need to be monitored by the government on every transaction.

I'm also not sure if you're aware of the whole DLC scam EA has been running either. Half the time you know about a games DLC before it's even released with them. At least you don't have to give blizzard another 60$ every time the release a new content patch.