Banned - Exploiting the economy..

[Osmeric]

Then Blizzard must ban themselves for sale Guardian Cub?

Of course not. Why would you think such a silly thing?

[Wildtree]

I like how a Blizzard official responded in the thread and got outright ignored....

Just some mod close the thread then. It's essentially pointless.

[World Enjoy]

Don't these emails always come from battle.net?

Maybe it's a phish.

[Daerio]

I believe that is exactly what Blizzard does.

Anyway: look at what you're trying to claim here: that the ToS is invalid. That's obviously bullshit, since the validity of the ToS was central to Blizzard's recent (last couple of years) victory over a US botmaker for tortious interference with contractual relations. If the contract wasn't valid, that victory would not have been possible.

Blizzard does not need the ToS to be valid for them to prove a third-party company is making profit off their IP, and doing damage to the game itself. That literally has nothing at all to do with the ToS. That's copyright infringement, not breach of contract.

Also, you ignored the part where I quoted how Blizzard was sued in Korea FOR NOT ALLOWING REFUNDS - so I'm pretty sure I summarized the invalidity of the ToS correctly. Maybe they do offer refunds currently, Blizzard is allowed to change their mind - and I don't really have a vested interest.

[docterfreeze]

My first WoW account got banned for this. I gold begged and asked for dungeon carries pretty much 24/7. I got so much gold from trades I guess blizzard thought I was buying gold.

Have you been trading with people a lot lately?

[Osmeric]

Blizzard does not need the ToS to be valid for them to prove a third-party company is making profit off their IP, and doing damage to the game itself. That literally has nothing at all to do with the ToS.

They won a lawsuit in which one of the claims was for tortious interference with contractual relations.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/18/48...g-fan-software

"Blizzard Entertainment has prevailed in a two-year legal battle with Ceiling Fan Software over World of Warcraft bots, and has been awarded $7 million by a federal court in California.

The publisher originally filed suit in December 2011 against Ceiling Fan, a company that developed two bots — Pocket Gnome and Shadow Bot — allowing World of Warcraft players to automate aspects of the game. Using bots is a violation of the World of Warcraft end-user license agreement and its terms of use.

The court agreed with Blizzard's contention that the bots constituted tortious interference with contractual relations under California law. That is, Ceiling Fan knowingly sold software that was a violation of World of Warcraft's terms of use, which is a legal contract between World of Warcraft players and Blizzard."

So: this court has ruled that, in California at least, the ToS is a legal contract (a necessary precondition to win a lawsuit for tortious interference.)

Can you please stop lying about this now?

[Daerio]

So: this court has ruled that, in California at least, the ToS is a legal contract (a necessary precondition to win a lawsuit for tortious interference.)

Can you please stop lying about this now?

That is NOT what that means, but you can keep thinking that.

Tortious interference, also known as intentional interference with contractual relations, in the common law of torts, occurs when a person intentionally damages the plaintiff's contractual or other business relationships. This tort is broadly divided into two categories, one specific to contractual relationships (irrespective of whether they involve business), and the other specific to business relationships or activities (irrespective of whether they involve a contract).

Can YOU please stop now?

[Deleted]

1 less bot in the game Finally they do something!

And to the OP, dont make a fool out of yourself

[Grogo]

I have had some experience with banning, my wife was perm banned and later, finally...proved to be 100% innocent, if we hadnt been really persistent they would of never found out the truth. Just remember that, they can ban your ass at any time and for fuck all. Many times people get banned for something some one else did and Blizz can fuck it up even more royally.

[Keile]

Yo people who didn't read the entire thread just now replying on last page after reading ONE post. I've had blizzard admit to me that the account locking/exploiting economy email shit is automated and done as a precautionary measure. keep judging though

So long as they unban the accounts, then I would rather they keep the precautionary methods than not. Sure it is an inconvenience, but I would rather have the protection than not. It is similar to what my bank does with my debit card (though, seriously I've had even that flag over random stuff. Get this, I recently purchased a big order online for an out of state friends birthday, and set the delivery address to theirs. This also changed the billing address, even though I paid online. A week later I find my debit was locked and I had to call them. I figured this event was what triggered it....nope it was triggered by me purchasing a 20 oz Coke in the store where I have worked for the last 7 years and have purchased said Cokes nearly every day in every shift I have worked there....)

Another way to think of it is like a condom: You'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. For every "wrongful" time someone gets one of these bans/suspensions, there are many more LEGIT ones that we do not hear about.

Ive played WoW since it's inception and the only "bans" I've ever gotten were all billing related....I've had them fail to charge my card a few times (card was fine, once I had it rerun the payment it all cleared up), but this hasn't happened in a long time.

[Daerio]

Another way to think of it is like a condom: You'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. For every "wrongful" time someone gets one of these bans/suspensions, there are many more LEGIT ones that we do not hear about.

I think the attitude that needs adjusting is the assumption that Blizzard is somehow the only group of humans in the world that don't make mistakes - as if everyone who gets banned must have somehow deserved it. Their automated banning system is not broken by default, until their customer service drops to the point where they stop UN-banning people who don't deserve it.

[Keile]

I think the attitude that needs adjusting is the assumption that Blizzard is somehow the only group of humans in the world that don't make mistakes - as if everyone who gets banned must have somehow deserved it. Their automated banning system is not broken by default, until their customer service drops to the point where they stop UN-banning people who don't deserve it.

Exactly, what I was stating is the automated service is not the fault. The fault lies with the customer service in not thoroughly researching and evaluating what the automation gives them.

At the same time, we have no clue exactly how many of these automated bans go out that go unnoticed by us here. I'm certain there's a lot of them that happen that most people appeal without ever making them public, and get sorted out. The ones we see here are just the vocal minority.

[Kezotar]

1 less bot in the game Finally they do something!

And to the OP, dont make a fool out of yourself

Rakurnray
Customer Service Representative
Hey there, xxxxx,

After thoroughly reviewing the action taken against the license, we have removed the previously communicated penalty. It appears that your account your account was compromised at the time and due to the exploitive activity they performed caused the ban.

As previously mentioned, please consider taking the time to secure your computer and your email. Our security checklist can be found here: http://us.battle.net/security/. Thanks for your time and I do hope you have a good day.

I already said that the ban was removed. How I hate it when people post on the topic without having anything good to contribute. My issue here is that this is my second time this has happend. My brother which lives in another country had this happen alot of times.. It was never a concern with the security on my PC just to make that clear, becasue there was absolutely NO logins on neither of the accounts. Just before I logged in on my account it was " 2 days since last login " and none of my friends had seen me online.

In addition to that I get a key on my phone EVERY time I log into WOW. Never had that. I get the accounted LOCKED until I state my Security "CODE" if logged in from a fishy IP.

So TL;DR :If it really was compromised as they say " then it had to be from somoene within a other IP, however since that can't be the case. Due to phone and blizzard IP security I don't understand how they could even bann me even if it was a bann that was mistakenly put. My question is however to other guys on the forums : Has this happend to you? Because I'm just curious if this was me on wrong day, wrong time and Blizzard in reality just accidentally banned me or if they have somewhat of a patternbanning people. Maybe they thought, okey this guy just subscribed back to a 7-8 month old frozen account.. fishy fish.

See my point? So stop with the silly speculations about me deserving the ban, or me being guilty. The ban has been "APPEALED" and I was not even found guilty in the scenario by Blizzard and they said it themselves that it was "COMPROMISED". I'm not really sure how can you can get compromised with a authenticator ish "they send me a code on my phone" thing. There was NO keyloggers, trojans or whatsoever on my PC. NONE. I did plenty of check and scans and made sure to use ONLY legit programs, no cracks. Everything ran seperately none of the viruses ran together, the PC had been formatted and windows had been reinstalled last month.

Please just stop it, and actually got damn read the post throughout. I never started the speculations or the "blizz is allowed to do x stuff "..

All I'm asking about is if this is some kind of security routine by Blizzard to detect if the account was hacked, bought, sold due to long frozen activity and such and if someone had something like this before. Really.. It's not a WHINY WHINE I GOT BANNED PLEASE HELP ME BLIZZARD: I knew the second I would get my account back because I hadn't done nothing and I took it directly with Blizzard so don't you worry about that. This was just to see if I was just one of a million or one of a thousand.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly, what I was stating is the automated service is not the fault. The fault lies with the customer service in not thoroughly researching and evaluating what the automation gives them.

At the same time, we have no clue exactly how many of these automated bans go out that go unnoticed by us here. I'm certain there's a lot of them that happen that most people appeal without ever making them public, and get sorted out. The ones we see here are just the vocal minority.

I don't blame anything on Blizzard, I'm just curious of this was somehow a automatic thing and Blizzard just blamed it on my computer having "viruses" or "loggers" or even hacked "email". If it was a automatic thing then I'd appreciate a bit kind of honesty, and that they tell me that it was due to a automatic search or something rather than a lie. But in the end I got my account back within a day and really had nothing to complain about at them.

Just curious of it's a automatic ban of some kind or Blizard is actually implying I have loggers etc on my PC as I use the PC to MUCH more than WoW. So I did a HUGE check and it actually believe it or not took me quite some time to make sure there were no loggers or whatsoever on my PC... I keep my PC safe. Obviously nothing is too safe however, I doubt some huge hacker activist decided - Let's hack this guys account and sell gold..

[dusselldorf]

Did you buy game time with real money from a non blizzard seller?

There are only two possible scenarios here. There was some kind of blizzard error and you must contact them to resolve it. We can't help with that. But, blizzard would never "randomly" ban people. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

The other option is that you are either lying to us or not telling us the whole story. We can't help with that one either. So, in conclusion, your thread is completely superfluous, you will not receive help here, and you're not serving any useful purpose by making it. G'day.

[Kezotar]

Did you buy game time with real money from a non blizzard seller?

No, what I did was that I bought the gametime with a PayPal from the "Blizzard Store" DIRECTLY and gifted it to my account. The paypal I used is the same paypal as on the battle.net account. I couldn't use my PayPal to add a subscription, so I just "Gifted" myself game time. Might be that it triggered Blizzards "detector", a GM did a fast investigation and thought I bought "Game Time". I even have it on my PayPal LOGs if you want a proof.

I have resolved the issue, that's really not the problem here. They removed the ban, said that there had been a mistaken, however blamed it on "security breaches" at me side. Why would I lie if I even had my account retrieved?

[Osmeric]

That is NOT what that means, but you can keep thinking that.

You are confusing "tortious interference with contractual relations" (which is what the lawsuit was about; please read for comprehension) and "tortious interference with business relationships".

Here is the summary judgment for Blizzard. Read for comprehension, please.

http://legal.ceilingfansoftware.com/...3-09-24%29.pdf

"In California, '[t]he elements . . . for intentional interference with contractual relations are (1) a valid contract between plaintiff and a third party; [...]'"

"On the uncontroverted evidence, Blizzard has established all five elements of tortious interference with contractual relations, [...]"

"It is undisputed that all WoW game players must enter into the EULA and ToU before playing. Thus, all WoW game players, including those who also use Defendants’ Bots to play, have a valid existing contract with Blizzard. Thus, the first element is met. "

Can YOU please stop now?

You're the serial liar in this thread, sir.

[Battlegrounds]

I don't believe I can directly link to those other forums from this one, because they involve botting, (because guess who usually sues Blizzard to get their money back?) but again - common sense is fairly lacking here. Civil suits are not necessarily public record. There's no great source to draw from here, EXCEPT common sense, unfortunately for some I suppose.

A website devoted to cheating and exploits has nothing but honorable users that would never lie.

You're right, common sense is lacking.

[Daerio]

You are confusing "tortious interference with contractual relations" (which is what the lawsuit was about; please read for comprehension) and "tortious interference with business relationships".

Here is the summary judgment for Blizzard. Read for comprehension, please.

http://legal.ceilingfansoftware.com/...3-09-24%29.pdf

"In California, '[t]he elements . . . for intentional interference with contractual relations are (1) a valid contract between plaintiff and a third party; [...]'"

"On the uncontroverted evidence, Blizzard has established all five elements of tortious interference with contractual relations, [...]"

"It is undisputed that all WoW game players must enter into the EULA and ToU before playing. Thus, all WoW game players, including those who also use Defendants’ Bots to play, have a valid existing contract with Blizzard. Thus, the first element is met. "

They can make that claim in a judgement that has nothing to do with ToS, and it can remain unchallenged, because it's irrelevant. What would be the point in taking the time and money to prove that the ToS is invalid, if it doesn't put them in the clear to sell their bot? (which it doesn't, because it STILL COUNTS as 'intentional interference with contractual relations' WITH OR WITHOUT A VALID CONTRACT)

Tortious interference, also known as intentional interference with contractual relations, in the common law of torts, occurs when a person intentionally damages the plaintiff's contractual or other business relationships. This tort is broadly divided into two categories, one specific to contractual relationships (irrespective of whether they involve business), and the other specific to business relationships or activities (irrespective of whether they involve a contract).

I mean, all the text is right there on the wiki. I already posted it once. I'm not 'confusing anything with anything else', you're the one not understanding that it doesn't matter if there is or is not a valid contract is place, because regardless, Blizzard's relationship to their customers is a business relationship. Any third party that gets in the way of that is guilty of tortious interference with or without a contract. With or without a contract. Is it sinking in yet?

(I'm obviously just going around in circles with you, so this is pointless)

Additionally, this conversation becomes more complex, because Blizzard CAN make their ToS valid by offering a full refund. But this has to be determined on a CASE BY CASE basis whether Blizzard has met that requirement. That doesn't change the fact that Blizzard HAS lost lawsuits because their ToS/EULA was rendered unenforceable. Also, offering a full refund to every customer is tantamount to bankruptcy for Blizzard. How difficult/annoying it is to get a refund is also factored in, case by case, on whether or not the ToS is valid. (usually determined by a judge, who is a human, who is also fallible - so rulings could go either way)

- - - Updated - - -

A website devoted to cheating and exploits has nothing but honorable users that would never lie.

You're right, common sense is lacking.

Yeah, Blizzard's never lost a lawsuit in the history of the world, because it's not on the first page of google. There's common sense.

Post #115 regarding sealed civil case suits.

[Deleted]

People seem to forget that in a lot of countries in the EU, that a TOS/EULA is only legally binding if it was agreed upon PRIOR purchasing the goods. I know it's like that in my country and Germany, and that in the UK a TOS/EULA is legally binding just as much as in the US (their law systems are pretty close to each other).

[Daerio]

People seem to forget that in a lot of countries in the EU, that a TOS/EULA is only legally binding if it was agreed upon PRIOR purchasing the goods. I know it's like that in my country and Germany, and that in the UK a TOS/EULA is legally binding just as much as in the US (their law systems are pretty close to each other).

Consumer protection is a lot better in Europe than it is here in the US, that's for sure.

But ToS/EULA just is not as infallible as some people seem to think it is, even here. This isn't South Park. It's reality.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clip...ed-by-accident