What made vanilla and TBC so memorable?

[Deleted]

nostalgia makes memories more powerful

the end

That's bullshit.

I used to live in Azeroth in Vanilla. I would be in a store, hurrying up so I could get home to back in. I used to be at work, secretly checking maps of where I would go that evening. Checking items I could go hunt. Spent days, weeks and months with guildies and non guildies raiding and pvp. I loved the world Blizzard created. I loved the gated feeling, everything i worked hard to get was worth it. Reward system was amazing. And on top of all this, my realm felt alive. Very much alive. I spent months in BWL, AQ and the TBC raids to a lesser extent.

Now? can't even log in as the game is so bad. No desire to play. Realm feels completely dead. There is no reward system. You know what I did? I did SOO for first time in a pug. We finished it, I got the best weapon you can get off the last boss. And then I quit and never went back. What is the point?

How is that nostalgia? Stop with these bullshit comments.

[Hb]

The game was new.

[OneSent]

Nostalgia. Nothing more. Kids should learn to grow up and stop looking back all the time.

It's not nostalgia when I can literally log on to a Vanilla private server and have more fun playing the game than I ever have in the past 5 years or so.

The nostalgia argument is what people like to throw around to discredit those of us who know in our heart of hearts that once upon a time, the game was much more fun.

[Faerwen]

For me what made them so memorable is the feeling of discovery. The game was new for me, as it was for most people, and a combination of inexperience and wanderlust goes a long way in making the game feel greater, more expansive, than it actually was. Now, after having played this game for almost 7 years, the enjoyment I get is in playing my characters to the best of their abilities and playing with friends. Instead of the experience itself being "memorable" we have to make our own memories in this game, our own enjoyment, and if you can't seem to find that spark, that fun or that experience you so crave, maybe its time to find a new game?

[Kezotar]

- Players
- Restriction, work for you shit. - Now you don't actually have to work, you get it either way. LFR? Capping conquest?
- Classes were different, now everone got a stun, a burst button and can heal as good as a healer...
- Dungeon is dumb now..

But I don't expect players nowadays to know that kind of experience.. Ahh, walking down in Duskwood, going through it to STV.. The music, the feeling you had when going there..

Maybe when you finally managed to get a blue item? Deadmines took a few patches and good players to be Solo-Able by 60s.
Sometimes when the guild was social, you actually met people outside in the world.. The ganking, the wars..

Hitting 30 on my Warrior to get my Zerker axe, or even having to go through pain to get yourself the different stances..

Oh, hitting 40 and getting your mount. Having to actually use your mount, flight paths and boats to travel, where it actually felt like a game rather than being ported and there, or flying around everything.. The game was good..

Oh let's not forget to craft a item you actually needed so much things, leather, gold, ores, stones, gems, elementals and much more! I remember crafting my first Phantom Blade.. Had to take a break from leveling just to craft it, took a LONG time. I couldn't just buy the stuff from the AH, I could but money isn't what it is today as back in the days. We didn't have geeks eploiting the AH.

There's many small details here and there. The game has improved in perspective of a player that does not want to spend much time yet still have results. But it's no longer a game that you have to spend alot of time on. The hard part is now easy, however we also have something much harder..

Example - A dungeon back in the days can't be compared by todays standards. (Harder back then, CC WAS needed. Pulling two groups did mean wipe).
However - A raid back in the days can't be compared to today raids.. (Harder now than back in the days, not everything, but a few.. Remember, it was restricted to techonology and players.. )

Alot have changed, players have changed. Vanilla/TBC is a unforgetable experience that players after will never have. I'm not saying that the game is not as good or that it was better, just that changs have been made to fit the new playerbase.

[IxilaFA]

That's bullshit.

I used to live in Azeroth in Vanilla. I would be in a store, hurrying up so I could get home to back in. I used to be at work, secretly checking maps of where I would go that evening. Checking items I could go hunt. Spent days, weeks and months with guildies and non guildies raiding and pvp. I loved the world Blizzard created. I loved the gated feeling, everything i worked hard to get was worth it. Reward system was amazing. And on top of all this, my realm felt alive. Very much alive. I spent months in BWL, AQ and the TBC raids to a lesser extent.

Now? can't even log in as the game is so bad. No desire to play. Realm feels completely dead. There is no reward system. You know what I did? I did SOO for first time in a pug. We finished it, I got the best weapon you can get off the last boss. And then I quit and never went back. What is the point?

How is that nostalgia? Stop with these bullshit comments.

You did that because the game was brand new and exciting. Now it's almost ten years later. Of course you're not going to be as eager to log in to play a game you've been playing for the last ten years.

It's like a new relationship. The first six months are always amazing because you're discovering new things about your SO, you're spending time together, and even the little annoyances can be laughed off as cute little quirks.

Then, ten years later, you two know everything about each other, so spending time together isn't as exciting or memorable (though it can still be fun, don't get me wrong! Just saying it's not the same experience), you both kind of want your own space so having to be around each other all the time can become annoying, and then those little quirks in the first year are suddenly life-altering annoyances that you can't deal with anymore.


So what made the game better back in Vanilla / TBC? The fact that it was new. That's it. That's the only logical answer here. The game back then was less stable, less balanced, less complex, and less in-depth.

[Korgoth]

Novelty. Nothing else like it.

[Deleted]

So what made the game better back in Vanilla / TBC? The fact that it was new. That's it. That's the only logical answer here. The game back then was less stable, less balanced, less complex, and less in-depth.

And much more fun.

[Faroth]

-The slow pace of leveling and acquiring gear made it all the more rewarding. Since I was only gaining a few levels a week back then, it made every time I dinged that much more special. I get what Blizzard were trying to do by speeding up the leveling process, but it really took the sense of achievement out of it, to the point where people don't even bat an eyelid when someone dings around then, whereas before the very least they would've got would have been a /clap and a "gz."

I'll kind of agree with this. I miss the leveling being a part of the game. Hell, even think back to Wrath of the Lich King. It took a few weeks for the majority of my guild/friends and even around the server to hit max level and start exploring max dungeons, heroics, and doing the rep daily quests. It definitely wasn't 1 week or less.

I totally understand speeding it up for alts, though. Blizz had once made an off the fly comment of the idea of progressive xp buffs.
1st character - normal
2nd character - 5% less xp required
3rd character - 10% less xp required
4th character - 15% less xp required
And so on and so forth. I'd like the idea to be explored a bit. I think it works better than heirlooms and other methods of speeding up alts.

All the inconsistencies, unbalanced classes, bugs, pointless items, etc. brought the community together. I'm not saying Blizzard shouldn't try and fix these things whenever they find them, just that the way they've done it has meant a lot less variety. It's much harder to distinguish between classes now, you have the visual aspects and spell effects, but that's it really. Everything is very homogeneous. All you have to do is watch videos like Roguecraft which were basically centred around bitching about the game, but in a funny way, and the game was arguably the most unbalanced it's ever been in Vanilla and TBC, but it wasn't until halfway through WotLK that sub numbers stopped increasing.

I'll agree on the homogenous aspect. I did like the variety of Classic and BC and while I remember people complaining about specific things, I don't remember a flood of complaints. For example, I liked paladins being the optimal AoE tank but warriors the optimal boss/single target tank, though neither should be unable to do either one. Having those niche areas your class could excel at was pretty cool.

I think rewriting history would be best if PvP had never been implemented as a direct cross. Having a "pvp" spec for each class with pvp specific talents would probably have been more optimal, though players would have demanded 3 pvp specs to match 3 pve specs.

They've made the game too easy. WoW was always an easier game, but it always required teamwork and it was rare that you'd just blow up mobs without taking a bit of damage. Nowadays it's normal to one or two-shot mobs, even while leveling. This just makes everything trivial and killing monsters just feels more like a chore than anything else now. I remember back in the day I'd have to drink and eat between every other monster I killed, and if I messed up and ran right through an enemy base I'd definitely be dead, but last night I was in burning steppes grinding level 49-?? mobs on my level 40 hunter and died once. A good example is that if I saw a dragon, or any elite mob, back in vanilla or TBC I'd think about getting a group together to down it, but now I just run up to a massive dragon and kill it in literally 2-3 hits, it just feels stupid. What's the point in making these cool giant monsters if they're barely more powerful than critters?

I agree with you, but I think most won't. The MMORPG has been erased, largely thanks to WoW, and the MMO has replaced it. With a huge increase in players to the genre, there's given rise to the "most efficient way possible" approach. I see it in WoW, I see it in other MMOs.

Armour sets are getting over the top. This one is more of a pet peeve of mine, but I just feel that since every set of armour has friggin lazers and fire coming out it just makes it less special. Are lazers cool? Yep. Is burning armour cool? Yep. Can something be cool if you have it every single day? Nope.

When everything is special, nothing is. This is why you'll note my characters are actually usually transmogged into something more subtle. Feel free to look if you wish. Faroth, Feneril, Lylandriel, Gorndax, Dindle, Telahndir, or Taelyne on Feathermoon. I avoid the huge glaring armor with effects when I can. I generally prefer standard looking weapons as well.

What I particularly hate is why Classic/BC weapons and armor looked like metal (with crystals becoming prominent in BC as well) but as of Wrath EVERYTHING looks like it's crafted from wood and stone. A lot of those armor types look barbaric and can look cool on Horde races, but if you're going to look for something that appears well crafted, you're out of luck.

Back in TBC I didn't play much so didn't get to see a lot of the content, but I didn't mind. I'd spent my time in Karazhan and had a blast, then I moved onto the rest of the T4 stuff as T5 was coming out, and I didn't actually get to raid them (or even get attuned) for a good while after they were released, but it made it so much more special and rewarding when I finally did get there. This slower pace of progress also had the side effect of making that one guy who was raiding the very latest content that much more cooler and epic, nowadays everyone has all the latest gear and nothing is special anymore.

This is a controversial one. I'm in the same boat. I raided two nights a week in BC, a short night and a long night. We got Illidan down shortly before Wrath launched and never saw Sunwell, but that was okay. I had other friends who never got past Karazhan and that was fine with them as well. We all knew we'd go check it out at 80 when we were overgeared just to get to see it. I think taking out a little bit of the climb had a negative impact. And I understand the reasons for doing so, particularly having to re-run old content to get new raid members caught up, but I think there may have been better solutions. I think Wrath had the best balance with 10/25 man of each one, perhaps you can have a hard mode for fights or even just some fights instead of all of them and LFR should have been more like it will be in WoD for players to at least get to see it from a general fight and story perspective.

Honestly, that was the big rallying cry in TBC, just wanting to SEE the content, not get epics and legendaries.

What do you guys think?

The big thing that made them memorable was they were new. Dungeons were new experiences and raids were these big things that were just unfathomable for a lot of people.

With Burning Crusade we got gems and sockets to do a little customizing and boosting our gear.
We got heroics with justice badges with a new way to get low quality epics (and they were, some of the rep gear and even justice badge gear were Karazhan quality, even the ones introduced in later patches like Skyguard and Ogri'la).
We got the first 10 man raids (though 15 mans were in Classic) and Karazhan was considered a great raid design by many.
We got flying mounts for the first time. Expensive, real expensive, but still there. Slow flying mounts + bombing runs were exciting when they were first put in. Frustrating at times too!
Daily quests were introduced as a way to make slow, steady progression towards a goal.

Wrath introduced some new things and built on Burning Crusade, but I felt that since then with Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria, it's been small additions and polishing or tweaking the systems more than really exploring new additions to the game to feel truly new and fresh. However, some of what you pointed out I think had a real impact on losing that feelings. The sense of community was hurt with the introduction of LFG as things became more and more about convenience and meeting your quota rather than getting together and doing things with friends.

[IxilaFA]

And much more fun.

That's debatable. If you want to weigh fun in Vanilla versus fun now, you would have to eliminate the "newness" factor, which would be a big part of what made Vanilla fun. It's like riding a roller coaster ten times. The first time it was probably amazing. The tenth time was probably still fun, but not was fun as the first time. Doesn't mean the roller coaster suddenly got worse between those rides, just means you had already experienced it and so it was nothing new.

[nekobaka]

Meanwhile somehow WotLK gets nostalgia immunity especially from those who shit on those who like Classic and BC.

[OneSent]

Meanwhile somehow WotLK gets nostalgia immunity especially from those who shit on those who like Classic and BC.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.

That's probably because most of the people who claim Classic and TBC were only good because "nostalgia" were people who didn't even start playing the game until WotLK anyway.

They refuse to believe that the game might have been more fun prior to them joining it. So, in defense of feeling like they missed out, they just throw around the nostalgia card to discredit anyone with legitimate points of view.

Veterans also use the nostalgia excuse because they're afraid to admit to themselves that maybe they did enjoy the game more back then, but they just don't want to be "that guy". So it's easier for them to just lie to themselves.

[IxilaFA]

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.

That's probably because most of the people who claim Classic and TBC were only good because "nostalgia" were people who didn't even start playing the game until WotLK anyway.

They refuse to believe that the game might have been more fun prior to them joining it. So, in defense of feeling like they missed out, they just throw around the nostalgia card to discredit anyone with legitimate points of view.

Veterans also use the nostalgia excuse because they're afraid to admit to themselves that maybe they did enjoy the game more back then, but they just don't want to be "that guy". So it's easier for them to just lie to themselves.

I've been playing since Vanilla and enjoy the game now far more than I ever did before. Sure there are those fun moments in TBC that I can think back on fondly and enjoy, but objectively the game is much better than before.

[Raiju]

I've been playing since Vanilla and enjoy the game now far more than I ever did before. Sure there are those fun moments in TBC that I can think back on fondly and enjoy, but objectively the game is much better than before.

subjectively.

[Deleted]

That's debatable. If you want to weigh fun in Vanilla versus fun now, you would have to eliminate the "newness" factor, which would be a big part of what made Vanilla fun.

Many people still play Vanilla to this day on private servers. So clearly for some it's more fun even without the newness factor.

[IxilaFA]

subjectively.

Do you know the difference between objectively and subjectively?

Objectively means just looking at the raw facts, which is where WoW is better. Server stability, graphical technology, raid mechanics, and stuff to do are all greater than back in Vanilla.

Subjectively means looking at the emotional factor, ie, which is more fun to play? Which provided the longest lasting experience? Etc.

Subjectively is up for debate with WoW. Objectively is not. You absolutely cannot argue that things like game-crashing bugs, flawed raid mechanics, and much less content at max level made WoW a better game.

Many people still play Vanilla to this day on private servers. So clearly for some it's more fun even without the newness factor.

How many is "many" people? Are we talking about a few thousand? Or the tens of millions of people who once even played World of Warcraft?

I don't doubt there are some who truly did enjoy Vanilla more. But I am saying for most people, the newness of the experience is going to cloud their judgment of whether Vanilla was truly better or not.

[Thimagryn]

That's probably because most of the people who claim Classic and TBC were only good because "nostalgia" were people who didn't even start playing the game until WotLK anyway.

Way to generalize people.

Most of my guild started playing in Vanilla and TBC. Most of us agree that Wrath was probably our favourite expansion. We were always a small guilde, and tbh the way TBC and Vanilla was set up, it was very unforgiving to small guilds and 'bring the player' setups. We always had too much melee, or our tanks weren't optimal for certain fights, or you required X and Y classes to work/bypass certain mechanics.

I liked the challenge of TBC, and I will say that if there's anything lacking in WoW today, it's challenge in all lower levels of play. Questing's become nothing more than a chore, and dungeons aren't really all that challenging. However, there were many stopgaps in TBC that made the challenge artificially harder than it should be, such as rep grinds to access heroics, or Resist gear required to even attempt a certain boss. I'm glad the game has become more streamlined. I think it just needs more adjustments to scale the content to the players.

[Deleted]

Nostalgia
/Thread.

[oland138]

I remember people bitching about how much better "pre-bc" was when BC came out. Back in the days before we called it vanilla.

[Diggy]

Nostalgia.

That's why everyone hated cataclysm and now everyone agrees that cataclysm was great.