Gladiator FAQ and discussion thread

[Khorm]

I think the point he is trying to make is that the average raiding guild outside of the race won't be held back because of that 5% whereas standing in the fire hurts everyone and has a greater impact on progression...or something like that.

The average raiding guilds skill level is lower than a world first guild, they need more DPS help than them.

[Nikkaszal]

The average raiding guilds skill level is lower than a world first guild, they need more DPS help than them.

Every spec has the same capability to do monster amounts of damage in the hands of a good player, it is ONLY when you get to the superhuman levels of top hardcore guilds that these small % differences will be noticed.

An average player isn't going to magically do more damage just because he changed spec, unless he plays the second one noticeably better than the first.

The end.

[Khorm]

Every spec has the same capability to do monster amounts of damage in the hands of a good player, it is ONLY when you get to the superhuman levels of top hardcore guilds that these small % differences will be noticed.

An average player isn't going to magically do more damage just because he changed spec, unless he plays the second one noticeably better than the first.

The end.

He will if he is equally as good in both of them.

[Zka]

It does help, though I'm fairly cerain it's a dps loss on single target and still falls behind Arms/Fury. Arms and Fury have Whirlwind hitting all targets for single target ability damage, Arms also has sweeping strikes and Fury has Raging Blow cleave. It's not just a little bit behind but a long way.

Really the prot cleave isn't all that bad I suppose if you look at all specs on the whole, Arms and Fury are just very strong.

AOE tuning isn't done afaik.
Also, what's up with the small duration boost on shield charge last build?

[Smag]

I didn't notice any MAJOR single traget dps differences between HR and US. Just a different damage source spread - big fat SS vs. a lot of HS. Maybe US for a cleave heavy fight could be a temporary answer. If you build up the stacks right, you can sqeeze out some decent aoe burst.

[Nikkaszal]

He will if he is equally as good in both of them.

If he's AMAZINGLY good... like, "world best" good, then yes. The sims that everyone loves so much when comparing DPS between specs are based off perfectly-executed play. So yes, the creme de la creme of players do utilise this. That makes up something like a few percent of the playerbase.

As you get further into the vast majority of players, these differences become infinitesimally small and irrelevant.

People look at sims and go "ahh yeah this spec sims 2k DPS behind so therefore it sucks" when in reality they're only playing at like 80% of their capability anyway.

[Diograo]

thats why I'll stick with my prot/glad warrior in my casual normal/heroic guild for WoD

Arms/Fury could be better, but nothing is more important than the fun I have while playing, so Glad is the way to go ;-)

[Trubo]

AOE tuning isn't done afaik.
Also, what's up with the small duration boost on shield charge last build?

My guess would be to account for latency issues to make it easier to fit 4 HS into Shield Charge. Collision though makes a good point that increased duration destroys Haste's value since you no longer need that rating to fit the 4th HS in.

[Khorm]

If he's AMAZINGLY good... like, "world best" good, then yes. The sims that everyone loves so much when comparing DPS between specs are based off perfectly-executed play. So yes, the creme de la creme of players do utilise this. That makes up something like a few percent of the playerbase.

As you get further into the vast majority of players, these differences become infinitesimally small and irrelevant.

People look at sims and go "ahh yeah this spec sims 2k DPS behind so therefore it sucks" when in reality they're only playing at like 80% of their capability anyway.

You don't get it. If a spec does 10% more damage at all levels then someone playing the specs at equal skill level will do 10% more damage.

[Deleted]

Khorm said it well. X% more applies to all skilll levels. To explain it simply. The top-end raider can utilize that % (and will, most likely, do more than he/she sims) cause he is going into the fight undergeared. The average raider will have more gear when reaching the same boss so the extra % is more but at the same time the skill is less. And that is assuming a tank and spank fight, which doesn't apply, especially when you BL on X hard phase to get over it faster where that % is alot higher in actual numbers. Also those 1-2% wipes during progress....if your two warriors had that extra %...
Anyway, too many "if X", it is what it is.

[Deleted]

You don't get it. If a spec does 10% more damage at all levels then someone playing the specs at equal skill level will do 10% more damage.

Yes, but the 10% (or X%) do not apply at all levels. An example: Sims show that Fury does X% more damage than Arms, but Sims only apply when being executed perfectly. High-end raiders nearly reach perfect gameplay, the average player doesn't. In the hands of an average player, Fury does NOT do X% more damage than Arms. The average player will do X% LESS damage with Fury, because the perfect gameplay cannot be reached.

[Deleted]

We do not compare different specs Therosk. This is gladiator thread, thus we compare within the same spec... The X% difference, was between having armor gear or not.

[Deleted]

We do not compare different specs Therosk. This is gladiator thread, thus we compare within the same spec... The X% difference, was between having armor gear or not.

Whoops, you're right. The part about "Every spec has the same capability to do monster amounts of" confused me.

[Nikkaszal]

Actually, the discussion on the last two pages was about % differences between different specs when simmed

Unless I read everything wrong, in which case ignore all I said.

[Deleted]

Actually, the discussion on the last two pages was about % differences between different specs when simmed

I replied to this originally

Still, a "3-5%" DPS loss from missing bonus armor, .. stuff

[crazed]

I'm wondering if it's worth maining a Glad warrior when I would have to compete with the tanks for bonus armor drops. You say there's a 3-5% dps loss not having bonus armor on your gear sets, does that mean there's no point going Glad if the tank is prioritised that gear? Is there any chance the tank would NOT be prioritised bonus armor?

Glad looks like fun but I don't want to feel weak because I'll never get bonus armor gear from heroics and mythics. Plus there's the issue of Arms being too good at cleave bosses, does that mean it's a bad idea to go Glad simply because you also want DPS specialisation gear for your Arms spec? It's a bit of a dilemma for me atm.

[Diograo]

crazed, tanks will ALWAYS prioritise BA gear
but if I'm right, only in Mythics you will be competing with them, in normal/heroics the loot system is separated individualy, similar to RF and Flex... or not? =p

[Celarent]

Actually, the discussion on the last two pages was about % differences between different specs when simmed

Unless I read everything wrong, in which case ignore all I said.

It's about people talking themselves out of playing Gladiator because they won't get all BiS (who does in a tier, anyway?), and people thinking tiny output differences in sims are multipliers that get added onto performance in real life.

[Nikkaszal]

I'm wondering if it's worth maining a Glad warrior when I would have to compete with the tanks for bonus armor drops. You say there's a 3-5% dps loss not having bonus armor on your gear sets, does that mean there's no point going Glad if the tank is prioritised that gear? Is there any chance the tank would NOT be prioritised bonus armor?

Glad looks like fun but I don't want to feel weak because I'll never get bonus armor gear from heroics and mythics. Plus there's the issue of Arms being too good at cleave bosses, does that mean it's a bad idea to go Glad simply because you also want DPS specialisation gear for your Arms spec? It's a bit of a dilemma for me atm.

Thing is though, you'll have at most two people competing with you for those slots (unless your raid contains more Glads). You might have one. You might have none.

Once the tanks get their BA pieces, the rest are all yours. No fighting with other DPS for them!

Gladiators also get the best usage out of raid consumables. Str pots give 1000 (1050 AP after the 5% stats buff), BA pots give 1500 (1500 flat AP). Everyone's using crit/haste/mastery/whatever food, except you using armor food - the only DPS eating food that gives AP.

(And yeah, I've been testing these. They count.)

[crazed]

Thing is though, you'll have at most two people competing with you for those slots (unless your raid contains more Glads). You might have one. You might have none.

Once the tanks get their BA pieces, the rest are all yours. No fighting with other DPS for them!

Gladiators also get the best usage out of raid consumables. Str pots give 1000 (1050 AP after the 5% stats buff), BA pots give 1500 (1500 flat AP). Everyone's using crit/haste/mastery/whatever food, except you using armor food - the only DPS eating food that gives AP.

(And yeah, I've been testing these. They count.)

Ok then my guild is likely to have 1 prot warrior tank and a brew monk, so I guess it wouldn't take too long to get my pieces. Will Arms dps still be high with all the bonus armor gear on cleave bosses? From what I heard Glad aoe is bad, but I'm not sure what their aoe is or how much it does.