Potentially New Sub-races

[ravenmoon]

Well, if that's your idea... Why are we having this discussion in the first place? I genuinely don't understand.

It seems like you wanted to make your own public statement that you want all Races to be playable. If the lore can bended in any way as you say, then why are we discussing it in Lore Sub-Forum and what prevents us in having each Class available to any Race then too? Let's spit some lore here and there so we can have Draenei Warlock, Undead Druid and basically anything else you can think off.

NOTE: I know it look like an angry post, but it isn't.

they do bend the lore anyway they want to do things they feel is cool, they will continue to do that for the reasons they feel are justified, why is it acceptable to get every race playable but not to have every class available to each race is answered by blizzard many times.

cool creatures and being able to play them or rigfight them is a major attraction a lot goe sinto desinging them, giving starting areas, giving lore etc etc, you want that, just like you want as many classes as possible, the limit on these factors is resources, it takes time to do races, and time to design classes, and you want a good system, but you cannot do all of that. CLass race combos are not quite the same thing, becuase at the end of the day you can play all the classes, having restrictions is a lore thing not a gameplay/resource thing, they do find the lore important and want to show ways in the game of upholding it. The felt at one point bevuas ethey werne't giving any new classes in Cataclysm that they'll broaden the class selection, and they created the lore for it.

class selection for each race is driven by lore, do i ned to explain further why that is a good and desirable thing? it doens't interfere gameplay and it neither enhances or decreases gamepay because you can at the end of the day play any class you want in the game, it does make the lore more engaging though, pulls you more into the universe.

[Rhlor]

How would that be Forsaken?

sylvanas could recruit

[UnluckyAmateur]

sylvanas could recruit

So add tattoos and greyish skin to a human and call it a forsaken subrace?

[DeuZWw]

the only sub-races that makes sense to me are the Half elves for humans and Half-ogres for Orcs and others half-stuff, liek half-draenei. Dark Dwarf is ok too, since they are now in ironforge.
Unless they make a whole new starting zone experience for every sub-race. Explaining why an Half-elf or half-ogre is where it is.

[Rhlor]

So add tattoos and greyish skin to a human and call it a forsaken subrace?

people want blood elf with blue eyes as a alliance sub race

[RH92]

*Post*

Great, you misunderstood my post.

I wasn't mumbling about making each Class available to each Race at all, it was just a sarcastic remark. It seems like you did not came here to debate which Sub-races could make sense from Lore point of view, but you wanted to see how Lore could be twisted in order to make your dream happen. To be completely honest, this is the moment where discussion ended and fishing for affirmation began.

If you want to add Sub-race, you need to specify what qualifies as Sub-race in the first place. In my opinion it has to be physically and culturally very similar, otherwise it feels like Lore bending. Ignoring any restrictions you can have whatever you want, but what is the point of this discussion then?

[Javox]

If we ever get subraces, they'd need to fit lore and make sense. I think they'd need to be races that we are already friendly with and don't require an explanation for why they're now playable. That being said, some sub-races would need somewhat different racials if it makes sense and possibly even different classes. Like a high elf wouldn't have warlocks available if they were put with humans. Some races would need to start in different zones as well. A wildhammer dwarf wouldn't start out in the snow like the ones we have now.

Alliance-

Humans: high elves, half elves. Half elves exist, there isn't a doubt about that, and since they're half human, they are the most logical human subrace. High elves would only fit as a human sub-race. They are Alliance aligned, so they wouldn't fit as a blood elf one unless they start out in a phased Quel'Thalas. They also wouldn't fit night elves because I'm pretty sure they still aren't on great terms and it wouldn't make sense for them to start out in Teldrassil anyway. Elwynn Forest makes sense as most high elves are in Dalaran or Stormwind now and we can't start out in Dal, so SW it is.

Dwarves: wildhammer, dark iron. Wildhammer dwarves have been aiding the alliance since the Second War. We didn't really see them until Cata in-game, but they are firmly Alliance and the most logical dwarf subrace. Dark iron make less sense than the wildhammer as most of the time we see them, we're killing them for quests and dungeon loot. But with Moira's seat in Ironforge, them being playable isn't that hard to see. And like I said above, both of these would need a different starting zone. I'd say Hinterlands and then Burning Steppes.

Night elves: highborne? This is one that Blizzard would need to go a little farther with. We already can sort of make our characters look highborne-ish, so they might require a semi-different model.

Draenei: broken I'd say lost ones too, but I feel like they might be a little too far gone. But the broken would make sense as a sub-race. They would be one of the sub-races that would require a few class restrictions as they wouldn't have priests or paladins.

Those are the only Ally races I think should get them. Mechagnomes and leper gnomes seem cool, but I'm not sure how viable a leper gnome is going to be to any army or anything, and the mechagnomes would require more lore to explain why they have free will and whatnot.

Horde-

Orcs: Mag'har, Mok'Nathal? The Mag'har orcs certainly make sense and I'd like to see them playable. As for the Mok'Nathal, they would work as well, but I think that they'd work better as a means to give us our "ogre" race. Ogres themselves are too big and stupid (at least the Azeroth ones), but the Mok'Nathal are more intelligent. Neither of these would start out in Durotar though.

Trolls: forest troll, ice troll The forest trolls make the most sense. They helped the Horde in the Second War and it wouldn't take too much story to explain why they're walking around Org. The ice trolls would need a little more story to go along with it, but I think it would work. Once again, they wouldn't start in Durotar.

Tauren: taunka We interacted well with these guys in Northrend and they are the only tauren sub-race that I think would work. The yaungol seem to be too much the "bad guys". It'd need a lot of explaining. They'd start somewhere like Borean Tundra or Dragonblight.

Forsaken: elven forsaken Arthas plowed through Quel'Thalas just like he did Lordaeron. It'd only make sense that some of the forsaken were elves in life.

Then the goblins have hobgoblins, but I'm not sure they are intelligent enough to be viable. The sub-races of blood elves aren't exactly friendly to us (darkfallen, felblood, wretched), so they wouldn't have one.

[Rhlor]

If we ever get subraces, they'd need to fit lore and make sense. I think they'd need to be races that we are already friendly with and don't require an explanation for why they're now playable. That being said, some sub-races would need somewhat different racials if it makes sense and possibly even different classes. Like a high elf wouldn't have warlocks available if they were put with humans. Some races would need to start in different zones as well. A wildhammer dwarf wouldn't start out in the snow like the ones we have now.

Alliance-

Humans: high elves, half elves. Half elves exist, there isn't a doubt about that, and since they're half human, they are the most logical human subrace. High elves would only fit as a human sub-race. They are Alliance aligned, so they wouldn't fit as a blood elf one unless they start out in a phased Quel'Thalas. They also wouldn't fit night elves because I'm pretty sure they still aren't on great terms and it wouldn't make sense for them to start out in Teldrassil anyway. Elwynn Forest makes sense as most high elves are in Dalaran or Stormwind now and we can't start out in Dal, so SW it is.

Dwarves: wildhammer, dark iron. Wildhammer dwarves have been aiding the alliance since the Second War. We didn't really see them until Cata in-game, but they are firmly Alliance and the most logical dwarf subrace. Dark iron make less sense than the wildhammer as most of the time we see them, we're killing them for quests and dungeon loot. But with Moira's seat in Ironforge, them being playable isn't that hard to see. And like I said above, both of these would need a different starting zone. I'd say Hinterlands and then Burning Steppes.

Night elves: highborne? This is one that Blizzard would need to go a little farther with. We already can sort of make our characters look highborne-ish, so they might require a semi-different model.

Draenei: broken I'd say lost ones too, but I feel like they might be a little too far gone. But the broken would make sense as a sub-race. They would be one of the sub-races that would require a few class restrictions as they wouldn't have priests or paladins.

Those are the only Ally races I think should get them. Mechagnomes and leper gnomes seem cool, but I'm not sure how viable a leper gnome is going to be to any army or anything, and the mechagnomes would require more lore to explain why they have free will and whatnot.

Horde-

Orcs: Mag'har, Mok'Nathal? The Mag'har orcs certainly make sense and I'd like to see them playable. As for the Mok'Nathal, they would work as well, but I think that they'd work better as a means to give us our "ogre" race. Ogres themselves are too big and stupid (at least the Azeroth ones), but the Mok'Nathal are more intelligent. Neither of these would start out in Durotar though.

Trolls: forest troll, ice troll The forest trolls make the most sense. They helped the Horde in the Second War and it wouldn't take too much story to explain why they're walking around Org. The ice trolls would need a little more story to go along with it, but I think it would work. Once again, they wouldn't start in Durotar.

Tauren: taunka We interacted well with these guys in Northrend and they are the only tauren sub-race that I think would work. The yaungol seem to be too much the "bad guys". It'd need a lot of explaining. They'd start somewhere like Borean Tundra or Dragonblight.

Forsaken: elven forsaken Arthas plowed through Quel'Thalas just like he did Lordaeron. It'd only make sense that some of the forsaken were elves in life.

Then the goblins have hobgoblins, but I'm not sure they are intelligent enough to be viable. The sub-races of blood elves aren't exactly friendly to us (darkfallen, felblood, wretched), so they wouldn't have one.

blood elves blue eyes for blood elves.

humans cultist for the forsaken

[Alanar]

I'd rather we got more canonical subraces, and I'd rather they didn't try to shoehorn subraces into each race. My ideas:

Alliance:
> Humans - High Elves, Half Elves
> Dwarves - Dark Iron, Wildhammer
> Night Elves - Highborn
> Draenei - Broken

Horde:
> Orc - Mag'har, Blackrock
> Tauren - Taunka
> Undead - Undead Elves, Leper Gnomes
> Trolls - Forest Trolls

- - - Updated - - -

That way things are balanced throughout factions. 6 subraces each; two races per faction get two subraces; each faction gets a subrace which is a version of a race from the opposite faction; a race from each faction has a subrace with an entirely new model (Broken and Taunka) rather than just a reskin. I'd love to see each one unlocked via a quest chain.

I would say make High elves sub option for blood elves and half elves for humans. He uses Be model and is realy an eyecolor option if you ask me. The humans use the same model as half elves like the blue dragonflight guy.

That way you keep the actual model to the race it belongs if you feel me.

[ravenmoon]

I agree. Not saying OP's ideas are bad at all, and I love the idea of sub races. But I'd rather just see the existing stuff get done before we start doing things like Cyborg Gnomes.

I'd really love to take it a step more and give the subraces their own starting zones and everything before they go to meet their "main" racial leaders. So Dark Irons could start out in an instanced Blackrock Mountain and do a Worgen-style questline from 1-15 or however many levels. Then they get a quest to go meet the Council of the Three Hammers at Ironforge and properly join the Alliance.

Would be cool for the player's name to show the subrace as well. <Name> Level 90 Frostborn Dwarf Warrior (Alliance)

Also.....Frostborn Dwarves. I would actually use a paid service for the first time ever and change my main (Dwarf Warrior) to a Frostborn if I could. They are so awesome.

The above would probably be more work than it'd be worth (insert "it'll cost a raid tier" joke here), but I still think it would be awesome.

yep, that's exactly how i'd like them to do it.

I really think they should kick off with a reasonalbe number like maybe 4 or 6, then aim for adding one every patch, it can be like a big surpirse, what sub-race would be next, would give patches an edge

afterall, there are so many to go through, both existing and new.. and given each expansion has roughly 4 major patches, they can eithe rgo for 1 every major patch or one every minor patch like 6.1.2 or 6.0.1, maybe at expansions give sometthing like another 4 at once, or take a break to introduce a new race like OGre, or Naga, or Cenarion or Furbolg ..they got so many options for new races too

[Zulkhan]

sylvanas could recruit

Unless she promises immortality to them, hardly gonna happen.

Well yeah, she could promise to them to be turned in Forsaken by her Valkyr...anytime Soon.

[ravenmoon]

Great, you misunderstood my post.

I wasn't mumbling about making each Class available to each Race at all, it was just a sarcastic remark. It seems like you did not came here to debate which Sub-races could make sense from Lore point of view, but you wanted to see how Lore could be twisted in order to make your dream happen. To be completely honest, this is the moment where discussion ended and fishing for affirmation began.

If you want to add Sub-race, you need to specify what qualifies as Sub-race in the first place. In my opinion it has to be physically and culturally very similar, otherwise it feels like Lore bending. Ignoring any restrictions you can have whatever you want, but what is the point of this discussion then?

what should qualify as a sub race? should it be sub-faction rather than sub-rce? am i the only one who has ideas for sub-races? I hope i can give my ideas on sub-races and discuss them or rathe rresond to people's comments on them without it derailing the whole thread, i am quite eager to discuss others' ideas when they post them, which they sometimes do and i respond, don't be a spoil sport.

[Deleted]

I would say make High elves sub option for blood elves and half elves for humans. He uses Be model and is realy an eyecolor option if you ask me. The humans use the same model as half elves like the blue dragonflight guy.

That way you keep the actual model to the race it belongs if you feel me.

High Elves don't actually add anything if they are introduced as an eye colour option for Blood Elves. That would homogenise the two groups and do a disservice to both. The Belfs and Helfs are two distinct groups and the High Elves are part of the Alliance. So they should be an Alliance subrace. Simple as.

[Mace]

but then they don't have to add anything more than eye colour, being high elf in itself offers many other differences to blood elves including the fact they are on the alliance.

sure it would be nice if they made the visual distinction greater, even as a subrace. Should they add in a s a subrace i can imagine that blood elves will get things like tattoos and other more brazen changes, htey'll get more macho and less pristine too, whereas the high elves will go more extremely pristine, with paler skin tones, no body markings..

but then again, they could swing the other way, especially if Alleria's return is aas a high elf and can be used to explain a more radical change to high elves..but high elf lovers keep forgetting Alleria could be easily written to align to the blood elves, espeically if they'll do the most likely thing as to share Alleria Turalyon to the horde and alliance, being the elf, i's likely she'll become the Blood elf emissary and the horde share of the story, and Turalyon the alliance one.

if they do introduce sub-races, Alleria/turalyon would be the perfect source of the human sub race of Half elves, and or a boost to the high elf lore. and even a new sub race of elves.

[Deleted]

but then they don't have to add anything more than eye colour, being high elf in itself offers many other differences to blood elves including the fact they are on the alliance.

sure it would be nice if they made the visual distinction greater, even as a subrace. Should they add in a s a subrace i can imagine that blood elves will get things like tattoos and other more brazen changes, htey'll get more macho and less pristine too, whereas the high elves will go more extremely pristine, with paler skin tones, no body markings..

but then again, they could swing the other way, especially if Alleria's return is aas a high elf and can be used to explain a more radical change to high elves..but high elf lovers keep forgetting Alleria could be easily written to align to the blood elves, espeically if they'll do the most likely thing as to share Alleria Turalyon to the horde and alliance, being the elf, i's likely she'll become the Blood elf emissary and the horde share of the story, and Turalyon the alliance one.

if they do introduce sub-races, Alleria/turalyon would be the perfect source of the human sub race of Half elves, and or a boost to the high elf lore. and even a new sub race of elves.

I think you missed my point. I'm not suggesting they make the physical difference more pronounced. I'm suggesting that due to the lack of physical difference, having them on the Horde is redundant.

[RH92]

what should qualify as a sub race? should it be sub-faction rather than sub-rce? am i the only one who has ideas for sub-races? I hope i can give my ideas on sub-races and discuss them or rathe rresond to people's comments on them without it derailing the whole thread, i am quite eager to discuss others' ideas when they post them, which they sometimes do and i respond, don't be a spoil sport.

I hate word picking myself, but I guess Sub-faction describes better what you want (I put no thought into this now). I have nothing against your ideas, I am completely fine with them. However you got to understand my irritation. I thought this topic would be about which sub-races could make sense from established Lore point of view, then you basically said the idea is to make all possibilities happen. I know I am going to repeat myself, but! You got to admit it kind of ruin the whole point of this topic. Maybe I misinterpreted the whole topic.

Don't take me wrong, it is interesting topic. However it is very difficult to talk about it, almost every "sub-race" has something that ruins it. For example Tauren and Taunka are very similar, yet Tauren dislike the forceful methods of Taunka in "communicating" with elemental spirits. Or Broken are unable to channel Holy Light, which basically changed their whole culture. Or Darkspear Trolls despite being physically same as their (more bulkier) brethren, they chose to live more peacefully and civilized. Same could be said about High Elves, who still despise Blood Elves for their past mistakes.

The never ending possibilities are only on the surface. Dig deeper and you'll see far less options... In fact I personally find it hard to pick any Sub-race except Willdhammer, Mag'har and Forsaken Elves.

My former point with the Broken was: If they are physically AND culturally (No Holy Light thing) different, why should they be a "sub-race" with no story of their own instead of a "new" race?

NOTE: If any circumstances bring me to repeating myself again, I will ignore it and leave no response further.

[Gelannerai]

Alliance:
Human - High Elf
Dwarf - Dark Iron, Frostborne
Night Elf - Dark Troll
Gnome - Mecha Gnome
Draenei - Broken
Worgen - Night Elf Worgen

Horde:
Orc - Mok'nathal
Troll - Forest Troll
Tauren - Taunka
Forsaken - Undead High Elf
Blood Elf - Hm, maybe Defias? Sort of at a loss for this one.
Goblin - Gilblin

[Hallowseve17]

I know people won't agree on this, but I will post it again.

Alliance:
Human - High Elf, Half-Elf (or Azotha)
Dwarf - Dark Iron, Wildhammer
Night Elf - Highborne (not a separate subrace, but have different followings), Cenarians (don't exist, but could be like Dryads and Keepers, elves with nature "things" on them)
Gnome - Leper
Draenei - Broken
Worgen - N/A (maybe a night elf humanoid form or a more feral look)

Horde:
Orc - Mag'har, Blacrock
Undead - Elves, Skeleton (genderless, or could use an alternative for females)
Tauren - Taunka, Grimtotem
Troll - Forest
Blood Elf - Wretched (kinda a longshot, but I could see them being referred to as "outcasts" by BE npcs)
Goblin - Hobgoblin

Just ideas, they could easily change it around. Regarding class restrictions, if you pick that subrace, they could grey out the class. Example: Broken can't be priests or paladins and instead they can be warlock and rogues.

[Kelthos]

I'd rather we got more canonical subraces, and I'd rather they didn't try to shoehorn subraces into each race. My ideas:

Alliance:
> Humans - High Elves, Half Elves
> Dwarves - Dark Iron, Wildhammer
> Night Elves - Highborn
> Draenei - Broken

Horde:
> Orc - Mag'har, Blackrock
> Tauren - Taunka
> Undead - Undead Elves, Leper Gnomes
> Trolls - Forest Trolls

- - - Updated - - -

That way things are balanced throughout factions. 6 subraces each; two races per faction get two subraces; each faction gets a subrace which is a version of a race from the opposite faction; a race from each faction has a subrace with an entirely new model (Broken and Taunka) rather than just a reskin. I'd love to see each one unlocked via a quest chain.

I like these ideas a lot. Fair, justified, makes sense lore-wise. I can't help but laugh at some of these ridiculous sub-race ideas some people put out there in these various threads.

I would, however, get rid of the Highborne and replace it with something else. The Highborne aren't a sub-race. They are a political faction of the Kaldorei. They aren't a seperate species or race. I would maybe replace it with Worgen that have a Kaldorei alternate form instead of a Human one.

- - - Updated - - -

The Highborne look no different from normal Night Elves. It is a difference in political position, not a physical one.

Just have pale skin and white hair. That's how I do it.

So true. And something that hardly anyone seems to realize. Highborne just do not make sense as a sub-race.

[zoomgpally]

The Highborne look no different from normal Night Elves. It is a difference in political position, not a physical one.

Just have pale skin and white hair. That's how I do it.

And roll a dk.
Congratulations, you now have blue eyes.