[TV] The Leftovers *Probable Spoilers*

[Rigsby]

The Leftovers is more confusing than Game of Thrones..

And I like it.

It's one of those shows where you truly won't understand the entirety of the season until absolutely the end of the season. Kevin perhaps picked up where his Father left off? It seems that they made reference to him being okie dokie; and now Kevin may be the one who can speak and see to others? Regardless, I'm excited to see "Holy Tom" play out. That is going to be mighty interesting!

[eschatological]

Third episode was great. I love the idea where near the end of the episode, Judging Amy tells her son Tommy they need something to believe in....and Tommy tells this really inspiring, really spiritually/religiously/miraculously uplifting story. And you're thinking, "Oh man, he made up a good story based on what happened in that gas station..." but then you slowly realize - *EVERYTHING* he said happened, actually happened. And the only part you don't know about, is whether Wayne gave him powers, because that's kind of an internal switch (if it happens) and we don't have the access into the inside of Tommy's head. And that's the thing with Wayne, you heard him speak a bunch of times and could have easily written him off as a cult leader or a pseudo-religious lay-on-hands healer, but.....it seemed to work. It worked for Nora, except now we see Nora really ISN'T free from all her troubles and tribulations. It worked for the Senator who came to see him in the very first Wayne episode in s1, is he still feeling sunshine-y?

I love the vague-ness in whether things happen or not in this show. First episode, you don't know if the handprint reader guy is actually doing something real. He says, "something bad will happen...." does he really see bad things coming? Or is it coincidence something bad happened to John's daughter? Episode 4, you have the old man in the convenience store comforting Nora as if he knew what's going on in her life. Is he able to feel things supernaturally? You have some characters who believed the girls departed, some who believe there's a crime which has been committed or a prank played. But we, the audience, know 1) that these girls have been running naked through the woods and doing weird (pagan? Wiccan?) rituals as well, and that the car which they disappeared from was parked right on the spot the cave lady died in the season premiere. You have Chris Eccleston and West Wing lady, and whether she actually did wake up for a night. And then, the mind fuck of them all, the crazy guy in his tower, who asks Kevin, "Who's your friend?" leaving you to wonder if he actually saw Patty, or just asked the question based on Kevin talking to himself.

This show, man. It sends me reeling, a lot of the time.

[eschatological]

One thing I fear that this show just won't have a broad enough appeal to even last the 6 seasons LOST did, let alone be a big hitter like GoT or insert-generic-show here.

[Shadgalaul]

This is one of the best shows on TV imho. I am constantly trying to recruit people to watch it, maybe I should just start wearing all white an chainsmoking at work.... I love the way the show uses the 'background' to help tell the story too, usually with TV news anouncers talking about some story. That was an odd thing w/ the girls in the forest too... right after choir practice, I was confused on that one a bit. I do look forward to finding out who the guy in the tower is, and why he's up there though.

[Puupi]

Tried to get my father to watch this series during season 1. But he is too old for this complicated storytelling.

[eschatological]

Man, this last episode. Christopher Eccleston. Forget that he brought Doctor Who back from the grave. This was an Emmy winning performance. When he started reciting Yeats in the trunk of that car, I was getting chills. And again, with the vagueness...we don't know if Mary woke up or not, we don't know if he had sex with a comatose wife or not, we don't know if she actually started speaking after he'd just been knocked out or not....it's all a mystery.

AND WHO THE FUCK IS BRIAN AND WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT SCENE? Jesus.

Gotta give it to Lindleof, he knows how to write character studies. I'm just worried that, what, now 5 episodes into the season, we've basically gotten five character studies (black neighbor, Kevin, Tommy/Judging Amy, Nora, Matt/Mary) and only one really big plot event (the disappearance of the three girls). Hell, even next week seems to be focused around the neighbor wife. 6 character episodes in a 10 episode season worries me.

[eschatological]

This show....literally, this show.

I don't even know how to explain this show to anyone, and it's frustrating because it's so haunting and beautiful and mysterious all at once.

This past episode, I can't even begin to fathom. There's like, 4 episodes left in the season and I have no fucking idea where it's going. Not like any of season 1's stuff has been resolved either.

[Shadgalaul]

This show....literally, this show.

I don't even know how to explain this show to anyone, and it's frustrating because it's so haunting and beautiful and mysterious all at once.

This past episode, I can't even begin to fathom. There's like, 4 episodes left in the season and I have no fucking idea where it's going. Not like any of season 1's stuff has been resolved either.

This - 100% this. I hope that this show is allowed to go the distance. And the guy that does the music should win an emmy every year it's on television. He's so gifted.

[Rigsby]

This - 100% this. I hope that this show is allowed to go the distance. And the guy that does the music should win an emmy every year it's on television. He's so gifted.

They throw the curve balls at the end of every episode. When Mary wakes up for good, if she does, imma shit the bed. Honest to god.

[Shadgalaul]

I think one of the things that seperates this show from others, at least for me, is that unlike say Game of Thrones or Homeland, I spend as much time (if not more) thinking about and replaying the previous weeks episode in my head, as I do thinking about the next week's episode. It's not like there's a cliffhanger in the typical sense. While I can't wait for the next episode (to be honest), I spend more time re-hashing that previous episode and the one's that preceded it. Other shows... it's always about 'what's next'. It's a different kind of feeling.

[eschatological]

Seriously though, that guy at the end of the episode with Kevin talking to Patty on the street, where he says, "Whose your friend?"

Randomly I'll think about this moment during various days in my life, and be like, "DID HE SEE PATTY OR WAS HE JUST MOCKING THE GUY TALKING TO HIMSELF?"

And I agree, whoever does the music needs an Emmy. Chris Eccleston deserves an Emmy for the episode centered on him. The acting all around is fucking rock solid.

[mber341]

So, "lensing"... anything to it?

If it is possible, and the girls disappeared because of it, then I'd have to say Nora is the red herring. It's Lily. Nora gave off strong readings, but she's Lily's main caretaker. Also, in season 1 Holy Wayne's baby was referred to as "the bridge". The bridge between them and wherever the departed went, perhaps? Did Evy and friends "cross that bridge" due to Lily's presence in their town? Plus, Kevin mentioned he started seeing Patty the day she arrived. It's not a stretch to believe there may be something supernatural about the baby, especially given who her father was.

Or it could ALL be bullshit.

My personal theory is that Dr. Goodheart took the girls. The entire season will have you and the characters believing some supernatural act took place, when really it will be revealed that it was something as simple as an abduction all along. "If it talks like a duck," and all that.

I agree with you guys, this show really gets your brain juices flowing, trying to calculate all the possibilities based on what they give you. It's really hard to weed out the bull from the truth. I mean, c'mon "...the demon Azrael." Poor Nora, they keep jerkin' her chain. Her and her brother.

Jesus, Matt. Of course Job is your favorite book...OF COURSE IT IS!

[eschatological]

How would Dr Goodheart drain a whole pond? And why all that setup with the girls in the woods naked doing some weird pagan shit?

I was thinking Kevin might be the lens, though I do agree Nora is a red herring. Keep in mind, Kevin was having an affair with someone who literally departed while (?) they were having sex. Then, Kevin wakes up in the pond after sleepwalking into a suicide attempt right near where the girls were. The old black guy in Miracle seems to see something in Kevin, and I'm sure the palm reader would be interested in reading Kevin's palm. In fact, I'm fairly sure the only reason Kevin's palm print on the car happened, storywise, is to get that palm print in the palm reader's hands.

Lily might be the bridge that makes Kevin see Patty though, but remember, Kevin's dad, in season 1, was basically institutionalized for the same reason - he saw people who weren't there and who communicated with him, and he spent the whole season trying to convince Kevin that it was in him too. So the ability exists, Lily's presence might have just forced it on Kevin without him accepting it. Then, Wayne's words about his child being "The Bridge" is about how the child lets people be in touch with those who've lost others.

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And Job is my favorite book of the Bible too. It's a great book. Gustavo Gutierrez wrote an amazing book called On Job about how Job is basically the only book in the Bible to question God's intentions, and about how the book tries to balance the idea that everything God does is unquestionable and good, and the fact that God basically makes a wager with the devil about Job's righteousness. And at the end of the book, God basically shows up and lays the smack down on Job and says "Who the f are you to question me?" Which even Gutierrez, a priest and a theologian, thought was kind of a cop out on the author's part, but pretty poetic for BCE writing.

[mber341]

I don't believe Goodheart is responsible for draining the lake, the earthquake did that. I only believe he abducted the girls. The guys just stands out to me for a number of reasons, but of course it could be nothing.

I like the idea of Kevin being the lens. It's a better fit. Based on the preview, I look forward to getting back to him and his story moving forward. I spotted him talking with who I presume is Erika's father. I wonder what he did that made John want to kill him, but I'm much more interested in seeing how he can help Kevin.

I also want to know what Patty wants from Kevin, or if all she ever wants is to torment him. Does she have any agenda for him that's related to what Grandpa's "friend" wanted him to do?

Also, where's Tommy gone? I think he's fallen in with the GR, perhaps to even step up and lead them? Meg could be having his baby, after all. He did tell Laurie he thought they had something, that the GR made sense.

[eschatological]

I kind of wonder if Tommy really is Wayne's successor.

I wrote a post after the Tommy episode about how you're watching Tommy tell his story from the end of s1 as the coming of a miracle and some wondrous passing of the powers between Wayne and Tommy, and how it slowly dawned on me that Tommy's story, as he told it, was 100% accurate to the things we saw, as the viewer, in that episode - which leaves you with the strong question about whether Tommy actually did have that switch flipped on when Wayne hugged him.

I never really understood why Meg decided to rape Tommy in that van. Was it to see Liv Tyler in her underwear? Cause I'm pretty sure everyone's seen her naked when she was younger in other movies.

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!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111!1

Is this going to take on a religious, supernatural turn? Is Kevin actually going to fight beings supernaturally on another plane of existence? Or did they just literally kill off the main character of this show?

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Did the "magic black man" kill himself to help Kevin fight in the underworld?!?

I loved when Patty called the very idea of an "old, magic black man" mildly racist, because it was running through the collective mind of the viewer of how tropey and Southern mysticism speaking-in-tongues the idea was.

[mber341]

That episode. Got a lot of answers, and even more questions. I don't even know what to say.

[Demona3]

I kind of wonder if Tommy really is Wayne's successor.

I wrote a post after the Tommy episode about how you're watching Tommy tell his story from the end of s1 as the coming of a miracle and some wondrous passing of the powers between Wayne and Tommy, and how it slowly dawned on me that Tommy's story, as he told it, was 100% accurate to the things we saw, as the viewer, in that episode - which leaves you with the strong question about whether Tommy actually did have that switch flipped on when Wayne hugged him.

I never really understood why Meg decided to rape Tommy in that van. Was it to see Liv Tyler in her underwear? Cause I'm pretty sure everyone's seen her naked when she was younger in other movies.

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!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111!1

Is this going to take on a religious, supernatural turn? Is Kevin actually going to fight beings supernaturally on another plane of existence? Or did they just literally kill off the main character of this show?

- - - Updated - - -

Did the "magic black man" kill himself to help Kevin fight in the underworld?!?

I loved when Patty called the very idea of an "old, magic black man" mildly racist, because it was running through the collective mind of the viewer of how tropey and Southern mysticism speaking-in-tongues the idea was.

To comment on the raping part:

After watching that episode, my husband and I went wow, scratched our heads, and just went to bed thinking it was a messed up show. However, the next day, he went to work and I stayed at home with my kiddos (stay at home mommy here). We both had a chance to think about the show and what occurred and a possibility as to why.

Here is our conclusion:

The rapture did occur, however, it seems to be only a partial rapture at this point - given the latest episode of the 3 teenagers disappearing. With that being said, lets look into the Nephilim, or Sons of God and the Seraphim - the fallen angels. The Seraphim are drawn to the Nephilim. This is why we saw all those women with "Holy Wayne", when he died and supposedly passed on this "gift" the women seem to be possibly attracted to Tommy. - I could be totally wrong about this, but it kinda makes sense. Revelations is coming.

This also seems to open the door way to The Four Horseman. I now believe that Kevin is one of The Four Horseman. Kevin's dad is one of the Four Horseman. - I say this because we heard about in a previous show about a man who died, but came back to life. Kevin has tried to commit suicide, and keeps failing or "divine intervention". I also don't believe he will *NOT* be successful in death from this episode. Patty, as the black man said, she's attached to him, but not possessing him. She doesn't know why. The black man had every intention of killing Kevin. He is trying to put a stop to the Prophecy. We haven't seen the other 2 Horseman yet. Although, I'm starting to speculate if Mary might possibly be a horseman. However, I wonder if the baby she is carrying is going to play a major role, she called it a "he" during the episode and seemed to be very concerned about getting back into the town. I also wonder if Laurie (Laura?) Kevin's ex, is a horseman. She woke up from the cult.

What we are watching is the rapture, but it's obviously not done yet. We are building up to the Revelation.

Nora is speculated to have Azrael inhabiting her. As she was told that she was a "lens". Azrael is referred to as the Angel of Death. Nora leaves Kevin after he tells her he's seeing Patty, but why? Any normal person would possibly try to get a person seeing dead or imaginary people to seek help. Instead, she left and told him she would come back if Kevin told her she was gone. But why? Why would that matter? Maybe because he is the main horseman, and she's a council since she is "attached" to him.

In summary, these beings are an exalted order of angels whose purpose is primarily that of worship (Revelation 19:4). They are very similar to the beings in Ezekiel 10 and Isaiah 6:1–3, and they are in some ways involved in God’s divine justice.

We are going to have a season 3.. and I think we will see Revelations.

Sorry, I know its a bit rambled, but this is about where my line of thinking is on this show.

To edit: I am not overly religious and found the above statement with excerpts from the bible from google. I haven't read the bible in a very, very long time - maybe I should at this point, to get a better idea of what might be occurring in the show.

[eschatological]

Has anyone actually read the book this is based on? I might pick it up, I think it would probably provide *some* clarity.

Demona, IDK how I'd feel if this just turned into a religious rapture event. Remember, Matt spends all of season 1 trying to say it isn't that, because the guy who departed from his car which hit Mary's car and made her what she is, ended up being a horrible person. There's all sorts of examples of horrible people departing, so I'd find it hard to believe it was part of some sort of Rapture event.

[Shadgalaul]

I definitely don't see a biblical revelation type ending to this whole thing... precisely because of Matt's season one storyline, although "the rapture" itself isn't shared by all denominations so it could be a sort of hybrid end of the world religious event. But man.. I did NOT see the ending to this last week coming. Also - the ending to the "Lens" episode, especially the scene with Nora and Erika with the questionairre... WOW.

I need more that 10 episodes per season!!!!!!!

[mber341]

I bought the book after last season ended. I've only read the prologue (Laurie joins the GR) and first chapter (Kevin prepares for Heroes Day--the pilot episode in many ways), but already it's much, much different from the show. In the book, the Guilty Remnant are a god-based cult, looking to remind everyone of "God's awesome power." The event itself IS referred to as the Rapture, not the Sudden Departure. There's a lot more religious themes at the forefront than the subtlety the show gives us.

I really wanted to finish it, but I didn't want it to ruin my experience with the show, seeing as they're pretty different. I still get confused on which certain events happen on Game of Thrones vs ASOIAF. I think the book will help to explain more of the characters and what makes them tick (with 1 Laurie chapter, I already had a better grasp on her character), rather than any answers regarding the departure. Of course, I could be totally wrong and all that stuff comes later in the book.

Edit: to add, I think Erika's father (if that's how he's related to her, they never said) is actually trying to help Kevin. I think that's why he had the grandson there, to take Kevin's body. Judging from the preview for next week, it seems he might actually bury Kevin's body in the woods, where he will be resurrected not unlike the bird. I think the old man killed himself to help Kevin on the other side, a last act of redemption of sorts. I think that's why the boy was crying/arguing when Kevin arrived. They were discussing what they were planning to do, and most likely the boy tried to talk his grandfather out of killing himself.

I'm also conflicted on Tommy. Does he have that power, or doesn't he? I figured at first that Laurie was telling the truth. That it was all bullshit, but in Ep 2 when he goes to meet Jill, he tells her not to touch him because he's sick. But in Ep 3 when we get his side, there's no sign or mention of him being sick. Of course, at the end with the revelation of him being Holy Tom, we understand why he didn't want Jill to touch him. So what the heck? I think we'll get more answers on that next week, seeing as he's a focus.