Cocaine and nicotine found in Egyptian mummy. Shows they came to America!

[Chingylol]

Tobacco and the Coca plant is originally from the Americas and didn't spread to the rest of the world until the 15-1600's, so how did it end up in the mummy?

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-...001025#!buUtk2

[Deleted]

interesting stuff

[Kalis]

No it doesn't.

It could have been contamination of test results, or that there were plants in the North African region that had traces of cocaine or nicotine in them, some of those plants exist in Africa today, but with the stimulants in smaller doses than found in plants native to South America.

[UnluckyAmateur]

Shows they came to America!

I don't even.....

But interesting none the less.

[Chingylol]

Found a wiki page this has abit more detail. So yeah, might be a fraud after all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Col...ceanic_contact

Traces of coca and nicotine found in some Egyptian mummies have led some[who?] to speculate that Ancient Egyptians may have traveled to the New World. The initial discovery was made by a German toxicologist, Svetlana Balabanova, after examining the mummy of a female priestess called Henut Taui. Follow-up tests of the hair shaft, performed to rule out contamination, gave the same results.[24] The significance of these findings lies in the fact that both coca and tobacco plants are indigenous to the Americas and were thought not to have existed in Africa until sometime after the voyages of Columbus.[25][26] Subsequent examination of numerous Sudanese mummies undertaken by Balabanova mirrored what was found in the mummy of Henut Taui.[27] Balabanova suggested that the tobacco may be accounted for since it may have also been known in China and Europe, as indicated by analysis run on human remains from those respective regions. Balabanova proposed that such plants native to the general area may have developed independently, but have since gone extinct.[27] Other explanations include fraud, though curator Alfred Grimm of the Egyptian Museum in Munich disputes this.[27] Skeptical of Balabanova's findings, Rosalie David, Keeper of Egyptology at the Manchester Museum, had similar tests performed on samples taken from the Manchester mummy collection and reported that two of the tissue samples and one hair sample did test positive for nicotine.[27] Sources of nicotine other than tobacco and sources of cocaine in the Old World are discussed by the British biologist Duncan Edlin.[28]

Mainstream scholars remain skeptical, and they do not see this as proof of ancient contact between Africa and the Americas, especially because there may be possible Old World sources.[29][30] Two attempts to replicate Balabanova's finds of cocaine failed, suggesting "that either Balabanova and her associates are misinterpreting their results or that the samples of mummies tested by them have been mysteriously exposed to cocaine."[31]

A re-examination in the 1970s of the mummy of Ramesses II revealed the presence of fragments of tobacco leaves in its abdomen. This became a popular topic in fringe literature and the media and was seen as proof of contact between Ancient Egypt and the New World. The investigator, Maurice Bucaille, noted that when the mummy was unwrapped in 1886 the abdomen was left open and that "it was no longer possible to attach any importance to the presence inside the abdominal cavity of whatever material was found there, since the material could have come from the surrounding environment."[32] Following the renewed discussion of tobacco sparked by Balabanova's research and its mention in a 2000 publication by Rosalie David, a study in the journal Antiquity suggested that reports of both tobacco and cocaine in mummies "ignored their post-excavation histories" and pointed out that the mummy of Ramesses II had been moved five times between 1883 and 1975

[Deleted]

You're aware British and many other explorers were very, very fond of tabaco whilst undertaking such work; And is easily explainable that the nicotine found would be remnants from that whilst they undertook excavating work.

And that cocaine was also used in innumerable items back in that age, even body wash.

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And also;

Two attempts to replicate Balabanova's finds of cocaine failed, suggesting "that either Balabanova and her associates are misinterpreting their results or that the samples of mummies tested by them have been mysteriously exposed to cocaine."

Following the renewed discussion of tobacco sparked by Balabanova's research and its mention in a 2000 publication by Rosalie David, a study in the journal Antiquity suggested that reports of both tobacco and cocaine in mummies "ignored their post-excavation histories" and pointed out that the mummy of Ramesses II had been moved five times between 1883 and 1975.

So yeah, not buying it.

[Ghostpanther]

You're aware British and many other explorers were very, very fond of tabaco whilst undertaking such work; And is easily explainable that the nicotine found would be remnants from that whilst they undertook excavating work.

And that cocaine was also used in innumerable items back in that age, even body wash.

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And also;





So yeah, not buying it.

I agree. Contamination of artifacts and in this case a mummy, is rather common. Even the Shroud of Turin may have been contaminated when it survived a fire back in the 1300's or whenever that occurred. So testing on it may have been flawed by false reads. Unless a item is freshly discovered, put into a containment container right away, any tests done on them have to take into consideration contamination from other sources.

[Noomz]

Tobacco and the Coca plant is originally from the Americas and didn't spread to the rest of the world until the 15-1600's, so how did it end up in the mummy?

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-...001025#!buUtk2

Contaminated samples. Attempts at replicating them, done by others, have failed.
Aka It's bullshit.

[lokinrond713]

Someone took a smoke, disposed of the evidence.

[Uproot]

As much as I enjoy watching these kinds of shows and reading thee kinds of articles and wondering "Man what if?" but If ancient Egypt had made contact with the Americas more than those TWO (geographically semi-specific) items would have been found. You mean to tell me they didn't bring anything else back except nicotine and cocaine...

[Kalis]

As much as I enjoy watching these kinds of shows and reading thee kinds of articles and wondering "Man what if?" but If ancient Egypt had made contact with the Americas more than those TWO (geographically semi-specific) items would have been found. You mean to tell me they didn't bring anything else back except nicotine and cocaine...

Not only didn't they bring anything else back, but Ancient Egyptians, who boasted about everything - including winning wars they lost - never mentioned visiting South America, nor did either civilisation have any noticeable impact on each other.

The ancient cultures did appear to be wasted half the time though, so they definitely had a thing about substance abuse.

[Yvaelle]

The evidence for Nicotine is actually somewhat compelling - there aren't any known plants it could have come from (its a very precise molecule) - there is just speculation that an unknown plant could have existed and been the source in Africa. Also the type of test they are doing on hair follicles means its pretty unlikely that it's contamination from early Egyptologists: because some of the mummies are likely newer finds, excavated under better practices. Also, that type of test - to my understanding - involves what is embedded inside the hair follicles themselves - not just what is on-top of them: so it would have to have been absorbed into her skin/body while alive.

That the cocaine results can't be properly replicated casts doubt on both finds - but looking at them separately - the nicotine find alone is compelling: the only known source is in the Americas, it's replicated from mummies dug up during many different time periods, by different people, with different practices, and from multiple independent examiners.

Not only didn't they bring anything else back, but Ancient Egyptians, who boasted about everything - including winning wars they lost - never mentioned visiting South America, nor did either civilisation have any noticeable impact on each other.

The ancient cultures did appear to be wasted half the time though, so they definitely had a thing about substance abuse.

I've brought this up before on the forums - but while the Ancient Egyptians don't mention travelling to the Americas (and they probably would if they could, but their boats wouldn't likely make that crossing) - they do mention being trading partners with a more advanced race of 'Sea Peoples' - which they never give a proper name to - but it would only take one trading partner having inter-continental capability for the wealthy ancient Egyptians to have had a ready supply of nicotine.

One way to test that hypothetical connection would be that supposedly the Sea Peoples dissapeared from all mediterranian contact around 1250 BCE - so if mummies fresher than that date also had Nicotine - we would know it either wasn't them or there was an unknown African plant-source.

[Kalis]

I've brought this up before on the forums - but while the Ancient Egyptians don't mention travelling to the Americas (and they probably would if they could, but their boats wouldn't likely make that crossing) - they do mention being trading partners with a more advanced race of 'Sea Peoples' - which they never give a proper name to - but it would only take one trading partner having inter-continental capability for the wealthy ancient Egyptians to have had a ready supply of nicotine.

One way to test that hypothetical connection would be that supposedly the Sea Peoples dissapeared from all mediterranian contact around 1250 BCE - so if mummies fresher than that date also had Nicotine - we would know it either wasn't them or there was an unknown African plant-source.

There are problems with identifying the Sea Peoples as anything other than Mediterraneans. Their military technology, as depicted in Egyptian monuments, closely resembles Mediterranean military technology attested from archaeological finds and was far in advance of anything known from the Americas, and they were depicted using animal-drawn wheeled vehicles, which were of course unknown in the Americas, also they were said in some inscriptions to have had their families with them.

All of which indicate that, if they did come from the Americas, it was either a one way trip and they disappeared from the gene pool, which would be unique in history for such a large invasion, or that they didn't take any technological advances back with them despite having used them to the exclusion of known American technology. Neither of which are particularly compelling arguments.

Also, why were only a couple of drugs traded, but no livestock, grains, technology, religious practices, etc.?

There is a possibility that some minor trade may have come from the East, i.e. via the Pacific, through the Polynesians or some others having contact with the Western portions of South or Central America, but again there are issues with how the drugs came into Egyptian possession.

[Dispraise]

... mummies tested by them have been mysteriously exposed to cocaine...

This line puts a smile on my face.

[Kaleredar]

The explanation is the same as how the outside of the Sphinx has erosion marks from years of heavy rainfall when Egypt has been dry for longer than the sphinx supposedly existed...

...ALIENS!


Wait, no, ANCIENT aliens!


No, DRUG RUNNING ancient aliens!

Obviously one of their priestess drug mules got a little too chatty with the space police, and they had to teach her a lesson...



Either that, or it's time to run some drug tests on your researchers.

[Twotonsteak]

Tobacco and the Coca plant is originally from the Americas and didn't spread to the rest of the world until the 15-1600's, so how did it end up in the mummy?

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-...001025#!buUtk2

Let me approach this from a different direction.

The Egyptians were not a sea-going people. In fact they hated the concept. Anything that involved ocean travel was traded for. As evidence of this you will note that there is no historical evidence of ocean-going vessels created by ancient Egypt.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Tobacco and the Coca plant is originally from the Americas and didn't spread to the rest of the world until the 15-1600's, so how did it end up in the mummy?

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-...001025#!buUtk2

I researched it for a paper and the general consensus is that the contamination was caused by careless investigators or by curators wanting to deter insects (nicotine being a highly effective insecticide).

See Buckland & Panagiotakopulu. "Rameses and the Tobacco Beetle", in Antiquity 75 (2001), Pages 549-556 for reference.

[Deleted]

The explanation is the same as how the outside of the Sphinx has erosion marks from years of heavy rainfall when Egypt has been dry for longer than the sphinx supposedly existed...

...ALIENS!


Wait, no, ANCIENT aliens!


No, DRUG RUNNING ancient aliens!

Obviously one of their priestess drug mules got a little too chatty with the space police, and they had to teach her a lesson...





Either that, or it's time to run some drug tests on your researchers.

Sphinx is way older that they say... You do know the Nose that they removed from the Sphinx can be found in Europe nowadays and it's a african shaped nose. But hey why should we acknowlegde that africa was the start of civilization .

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Let me approach this from a different direction.

The Egyptians were not a sea-going people. In fact they hated the concept. Anything that involved ocean travel was traded for. As evidence of this you will note that there is no historical evidence of ocean-going vessels created by ancient Egypt.

Well Africa is more than just Egypt and it's history... Don't tell me btw that you also believe that Egyptians we're lichtskinned like the modern Arabs right???

Africa people before the rise of Egypt had some big civilizations and the Africa people at the west coast are known for they seamanship...

Oh btw some statues in America clearly show african faces and are older than 3000 years.

Interesting Read,

http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/ancientamerica.htm

http://black-culture.tumblr.com/post/4563648887/these-huge-statues-arent-found-in-africa-but

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Egypt_Pre_historic.htm

The text on the first and 3 is a bit racist to my taste, but that doesn't make the message less truth

[Templar 331]

Also, that type of test - to my understanding - involves what is embedded inside the hair follicles themselves - not just what is on-top of them: so it would have to have been absorbed into her skin/body while alive.

Every hair test I've seen involves using the entire hair. So unless scientists have found a way to remove the inside of a hair, I don't really believe this.

My guess, archaeological expeditions use laborers to remove sand and rubble. More than likely these laborers were smoking some kind of mix of tobacco and cocaine on their breaks.

[Gheld]

This is all preamble to some kind of ancient aliens style bullshit. The "discovery" was made back in the 1990s. The official position of the scientists who discovered it is "More research is needed". (i.e. to see whether the test was mistaken, or contaminated) but any follow up studies have yet to occur. (Probably because given the two possibilities of either A. samples contaminated at a lab or B. Ancient Intergalactic trade route between Egypt and South America which predates seafaring by thousands of years.) It's so fucking obvious that nobody would bother donating money to fund such a study.