[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Jantof]

Another scenario that may be worth exploring is for BW resets. Like, if you pop a 1 stack FF for BW, then have the stars align and get a reset plus 3-5 stacks of Frenzy, should you cancelaura then?

I'm still not sold that we can construct an APL to accurately reflect this behavior, but hey, I was wrong about adding cancelaura, I very well may be wrong here, too.

[Effinhunter]

So the action list would cancel a 5 stack focus fire to pop a 4 stack focus fire, no?

One of the APLs does allow for possibly canceling a 5 stack with a 4 stack (which would be very rare), and the other APL only cancels a FF for a 5 stack during stampede, which would require a near perfect streak (5/6 Basic Attack Frenzy procs, despite a 40% per BA chance).

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Another scenario that may be worth exploring is for BW resets. Like, if you pop a 1 stack FF for BW, then have the stars align and get a reset plus 3-5 stacks of Frenzy, should you cancelaura then?

I'm still not sold that we can construct an APL to accurately reflect this behavior, but hey, I was wrong about adding cancelaura, I very well may be wrong here, too.

Action lists added that try to cancel FF when a 4 or 5 stack frenzy is available and a new BW is coming up while another one is still going (essentially, should be BW reset).

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic...-61/?p=2279766

[Jantof]

The problem with those APL's is that they'd cancel a 5 stack FF if you get another 5 stacks. That's the part that I'm not sure if there's a way for SimC to model appropriately.

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That said, the difference is so small across all the variations I really doubt it'll be much of a gain even if we could model it correctly.

[Lokrick]

Yeah, the Carlaena APL increased dps by a couple hundred over what I had at EJ. I have no idea why the SV APL was not updated on the Simulationcraft.org site sooner, but I think it has definitely played into the poor representation we've seen for SV throughout M BRF. Even the old SV list at EJ was thousands of dps higher than what had been in the Simulationcraft.org listing since the patch that pushed BM and MM up.

Mostly I got busy at work and didn't realize the gap was that big. I had tried various proposed options and not seen sufficient improvement to bother updating. If there's a big gap and it's not getting updated, please post an issue on the simc bug db (PMing me is fine, but occasionally I miss it).

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The problem with those APL's is that they'd cancel a 5 stack FF if you get another 5 stacks. That's the part that I'm not sure if there's a way for SimC to model appropriately.

I added the stack count to focus fire a few weeks ago, so it should be possible to only cancel if you have <5 stacks. Or perhaps just FF stacks < frenzy stacks.

But of course for the current best dps profile/APL, EJ is likely to be the most current .

[waat]

One of the APLs does allow for possibly canceling a 5 stack with a 4 stack (which would be very rare), and the other APL only cancels a FF for a 5 stack during stampede, which would require a near perfect streak (5/6 Basic Attack Frenzy procs, despite a 40% per BA chance).

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Action lists added that try to cancel FF when a 4 or 5 stack frenzy is available and a new BW is coming up while another one is still going (essentially, should be BW reset).

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic...-61/?p=2279766

BA's can proc their own cooldown reset with the perk tho, so doesn't necessarily have to be 5/6

[Deleted]

would you recommend playing SV or MM instead of BM if your on farm? im not in hardcore guild so i dont do many mythic fights but seeing the april fool notes saying "Hunter - fine" from blizzard, wont BM be nerfed heavly due to having really strong aoe and single target when other classes specs got issues doing both, MM might stay strong because of the sniper training but im not holding my breath about BM being strong in 6,2.

[Finbezz]

would you recommend playing SV or MM instead of BM if your on farm? im not in hardcore guild so i dont do many mythic fights but seeing the april fool notes saying "Hunter - fine" from blizzard, wont BM be nerfed heavly due to having really strong aoe and single target when other classes specs got issues doing both, MM might stay strong because of the sniper training but im not holding my breath about BM being strong in 6,2.

Trying to read into april fool's patch notes will yield nothing.

[Deleted]

Trying to read into april fool's patch notes will yield nothing.

so what spec will be higher according to you then

[Deleted]

You can play whatever you want and be competitive within a raid group. So, either pick what you want or go BM as is the general answer when everyone else ask this same question.

[Effinhunter]

The problem with those APL's is that they'd cancel a 5 stack FF if you get another 5 stacks. That's the part that I'm not sure if there's a way for SimC to model appropriately.

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That said, the difference is so small across all the variations I really doubt it'll be much of a gain even if we could model it correctly.

With Lokrick's changes to the engine, I've resimmed the situations of canceling FF with 1-4 stack for a 4-5 stack of frenzy during Stampede.

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic...-61/?p=2279772

Still no change in the advice for FF usage.

[Frofro]

Hey guys, long time hunter here, looking for some help. I've been playing surv for god knows how long and have really gotten the hang of it, I have some fairly high parses in Mythic BRF and a lot of really high ranks in heroic BRF. Now, i've recently made the switch to BM and i understand mostly everything about it. What I can't get the hang of is being 5 steps ahead of myself. I feel like i'm really struggling to maintain a basic rotation (KC and Barrage on CD) while being able to pump out any arcane or multi shots all. I have logs available to anyone that is willing to help. This is just the first post i've ever made here, so I guess i'm not allowed to post anything quite yet. Open to any and all forms of help. hugfordeeps#1529 Farora-Medivh

[Tekslol]

Hey guys, long time hunter here, looking for some help. I've been playing surv for god knows how long and have really gotten the hang of it, I have some fairly high parses in Mythic BRF and a lot of really high ranks in heroic BRF. Now, i've recently made the switch to BM and i understand mostly everything about it. What I can't get the hang of is being 5 steps ahead of myself. I feel like i'm really struggling to maintain a basic rotation (KC and Barrage on CD) while being able to pump out any arcane or multi shots all. I have logs available to anyone that is willing to help. This is just the first post i've ever made here, so I guess i'm not allowed to post anything quite yet. Open to any and all forms of help. hugfordeeps#1529 Farora-Medivh

There is a fix my DPS thread. Its stickied.

[Perfectionlol]

How did that FinalbossTV thing go? I was MIA and was not able to watch, I couldn't find it on youtube as well. Is there a location this video can be found?

I have a question regarding racials. I recently went Orc for obvious pet damage / BF awesomeness.
However, our guild is still wiping to the attendance/roster boss and we are contemplating a cross-faction merger to raid Mythic.
I was going over the guide and you have alliance ranked as followed;
Orc: 49161 (reference)
Pandaren: 48992
NE_Day: 48889
Draenei: 48871
NE_Night: 48807
Worgen: 48773

I accepted it as fact and moved on.
I later decided to take a look at Effinhunter's numbers as well, just to cross reference.
His rankings as follows; (ST)
Orc: 48019 (reference)
Draenei: 47809
Pandaren: 47760
NE: 47725
Worgen: 47722
(these stayed consistent throughout higher targets, at 3 targets gnome catches up but still remains second to Draenei)

I was hoping for the same rankings, with number variations because both of you use different sims.
But these are very different results, and I can tell Azor is 100% behind his choice by being a Pandaren himself.

At this point I am thinking draenei, because of the level of detail Effin goes into with his sims... Can anyone clarify these differences?
I wanted to go Worgen because they look incredible, I was going to go Panda because they look alright and are the best dps according to Azor, but now the static stat bonus of draenei is looking quite good.

I know some replies will be, play whatever you want to.. the difference will be negligible (probably why both hunters in MW are Dwarves).
But I'd like some insight as to the differences between Draenei and Pandaren.

[Rugtoad]

Snip-a-dee-doo-dah, snip-a-dee-ay

For the racials, the DPS is hardly a concern. Top top bottom it's what, a 130 DPS spread? If you're purely concerned about performance and never aesthetics, you may be better off looking at utility racials - Dwarves have Stoneform, which is pretty sweet and ever removes some debuffs on some fights, or Worgen have a handy dandy sprint. But if you're not gunning for a super high world ranking, you're totally fine choosing based on aesthetics, and I guarantee you it's not going to affect your team's success.

As for the FinalBoss thing, you can find it on Twitch.tv/finalbosstv, and they have a segment for the hunter show linked there.

[Gunba]

I know some replies will be, play whatever you want to.. the difference will be negligible (probably why both hunters in MW are Dwarves).
But I'd like some insight as to the differences between Draenei and Pandaren.

Playing Dwarf is for P3 M Blackhand. This will not be worth considering by the time you reach Blackhand.

Pandaren is pretty much garbage because it does not provide any utility whatsoever - additionally, the racial becomes useless if you die during an attempt.

The NE bonus is useless as you will most likely not raid during the 'day' if you raid on a local server.

That leaves Draenei and Worgen - you should pick based on whether you want the heal or the speed boost.

[Perfectionlol]

Thank you both for the quick reply.

As for Gunba, that makes sense. I had no idea that stoneform could assist in a blackhand kill. Why only mythic? Is it capable of dropping a bomb debuff or something?

Yea I was worried about the panda racial after death, I don't typically die in fights unless it's healers running out of mana on a progression fight with pot/deterrs gone. However there always is the random occasion.
But even without the death.. just the outright math looking at single target stat weights in Azor's Guide.
Panda= 100% of food buff = 125 mastery. 125x0.47=58.75
Draenei= 65 agi.
65>58.75, no reliance on food buff, and additional personal heal.

Doesnt make sense to me why panda would be higher ranked.

As for Worgen... If we want a speed boost, we can just go posthaste (fight permitted)

[HonneurVilified]

As for Gunba, that makes sense. I had no idea that stoneform could assist in a blackhand kill. Why only mythic? Is it capable of dropping a bomb debuff or something?

At the start of phase 2, these little fire cinders start falling from the ceiling towards the ground (only at the start of the phase). If you intercept the cinders before they land, you get a magic debuff that does quite a lot of damage and stacks. If you don't intercept them, they spawn a fire patch. Fire patches are bad, so you want to soak as many as possible, but you also can't afford to dispel all of them/heal through all of them (well, I guess it's possible, but...). You can use immunities/personal CDs to help deal with them, but you can also use Stoneform to remove the magic debuff entirely. That's why dwarves are great for Mythic Blackhand.

As a side-note, deterrence is godlike for soaking those cinders. If you get lucky, you can soak multiple cinders with one deterrence, so a single hunter could end up soaking 5+ cinders, which is 5 fewer fire patches to avoid.

[Azortharion]

How did that FinalbossTV thing go? I was MIA and was not able to watch, I couldn't find it on youtube as well. Is there a location this video can be found?

I have a question regarding racials. I recently went Orc for obvious pet damage / BF awesomeness.
However, our guild is still wiping to the attendance/roster boss and we are contemplating a cross-faction merger to raid Mythic.
I was going over the guide and you have alliance ranked as followed;
Orc: 49161 (reference)
Pandaren: 48992
NE_Day: 48889
Draenei: 48871
NE_Night: 48807
Worgen: 48773

I accepted it as fact and moved on.
I later decided to take a look at Effinhunter's numbers as well, just to cross reference.
His rankings as follows; (ST)
Orc: 48019 (reference)
Draenei: 47809
Pandaren: 47760
NE: 47725
Worgen: 47722
(these stayed consistent throughout higher targets, at 3 targets gnome catches up but still remains second to Draenei)

I was hoping for the same rankings, with number variations because both of you use different sims.
But these are very different results, and I can tell Azor is 100% behind his choice by being a Pandaren himself.

At this point I am thinking draenei, because of the level of detail Effin goes into with his sims... Can anyone clarify these differences?
I wanted to go Worgen because they look incredible, I was going to go Panda because they look alright and are the best dps according to Azor, but now the static stat bonus of draenei is looking quite good.

I know some replies will be, play whatever you want to.. the difference will be negligible (probably why both hunters in MW are Dwarves).
But I'd like some insight as to the differences between Draenei and Pandaren.

Effin's sims: ~700 iLvl BiS gear
My sims: 690-ish Heroic/Mythic hybrid gear, HC trinkets.

I also think Effin's sims use Multistrike food as BM but I am only basing that on it being set as the BM food in SimCraft by default which is sorta mind-boggling. It would explain why Pandaren pulls ahead in my sims.

SimC defaults to Night for Night-Elves if nothing is specified like with Effin's.

[Perfectionlol]

Effin's sims: ~700 iLvl BiS gear
My sims: 690-ish Heroic/Mythic hybrid gear, HC trinkets.

I also think Effin's sims use Multistrike food as BM but I am only basing that on it being set as the BM food in SimCraft by default which is sorta mind-boggling. It would explain why Pandaren pulls ahead in my sims.

SimC defaults to Night for Night-Elves if nothing is specified like with Effin's.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarity in those sims.

But what about the basic math in your guide?
you use 125 mastery food, panda grants +100% stat food.
you get 125 mastery, and plugged in as single target as an example totals 58.75 in comparison to agility (60 as universal).
meanwhile Draenei provides static 65 agility?
and for a personal sim, my mastery only weighs in at 0.44, which is much worse totaling 55.

If Pandaren were better than draenei, would it not reflect that and have mastery outweigh 50% of the value of pure agility (would have to be 0.52 stat weight to be equal to draenei static agi buff)?

or am I missing something very simple here

[Effinhunter]

Effin's sims: ~700 iLvl BiS gear
My sims: 690-ish Heroic/Mythic hybrid gear, HC trinkets.

I also think Effin's sims use Multistrike food as BM but I am only basing that on it being set as the BM food in SimCraft by default which is sorta mind-boggling. It would explain why Pandaren pulls ahead in my sims.

SimC defaults to Night for Night-Elves if nothing is specified like with Effin's.

First, the sims he is referring to were listed in Red in the BM guide's first post to indicate that they needed to be reran for the +5 ilvl buff. I've rerun them after seeing his post, and I've also rerun them with mastery and ms food. Here is the type of differences you are looking at:

=======================
Mastery Food

Single Target


Two Target


Three Target

=============
MS food

Single Target


Two Target


Three Target



As for NE night/day, I agree it is a difference, and I'm fine with you distinguishing that and me not.

As you mentioned in your Final Boss interview, people fret over these stat buffs a bit too much, imo. I think all of us should be using mastery food for BM, but the stat weights are pretty close, especially if only looking at ST.