Hellscream Name Constantly Slandered, Why?

[UnluckyAmateur]

A young Orc? Garrosh is older than Thrall.

Also in Ashenvale, Grom knew that what Mannroth's blood was and would do and he willingly drank it a second time.

Be happy that Grom at least gets final boss status, look how badly Ner'zhul got boned by Blizzard. Powerful Orc shaman turned Lich King started events that lead to the third war while encased in a block of ice a continent away only to be replaced by his snivelling emo puppet Arthas in a novel.

Arthas never struck me as Emo.

[Kahmal]

Grom was not a hero, he was a villain who died a heros death. One good act should not absolve him of all his crimes.

Most of Grom's crimes were under demonic influence. Grom was a powerful orc but he certainty wasn't the brightest of the lot, that or his stubbornness and ego heavily clouded his judgment. When he drank the blood for the first time he simply didn't know any better, (it did seem like an awful idea though). The second time he had to save him clan from being ripped apart by Cenarius.

Grom can actually be reasoned with unlike his thickheaded son hence why he and Thrall could actually get along.

[Hctaz]

Also in Ashenvale, Grom knew that what Mannroth's blood was and would do and he willingly drank it a second time.

This is false. He didn't know it was Mannoroth's blood. He had troll shamans sense a powerful magic which led him to a corrupted Moonwell. The shamans gave warning that it wasn't safe but he drank it anyway and only found out it was the same blood after Mannoroth himself appeared and took control over all the orcs who drank the blood. He was tricked basically.

[Durandro]

Grom is older than Thrall, but Garrosh isn't.

Uh... No. Garrosh is older then Thrall. By maybe ten years. He's just an underdeveloped manchild.

[Kahmal]

Uh... No. Garrosh is older then Thrall. By maybe ten years. He's just an underdeveloped manchild.

I'm not sure where Garrosh's confirmed age is, but Grom was extremely old when he died having lived through all 3 wars. Thrall at the start of WoW was pretty young.

[razski]

I'm not sure where Garrosh's confirmed age is, but Grom was extremely old when he died having lived through all 3 wars. Thrall at the start of WoW was pretty young.

Garrosh didn't drink the blood because at the time, he was ill (red pox, iirc), Thrall was born on Azeroth, green skinned like his mother and father. Thall was raised by a human who made him a gladiator and although his age isn't specifically stated, he was probably in his late teens when he escaped, meaning he began to lead the orcs in his early twenties (at the absolute latest).

Garrosh on the other hand, must have been born before the drinking of the blood, 35+ years ago, especially since he was ill when the blood was drank by the orcs meaning he was either a child, maybe in his early teens at the time, so in essence, Garrosh is older than Thrall.

I think it's safe to assume that Thrall is in his late twenties or early thirties, making Garrosh at least, late thirties early forties.

[Graeham]

Grom was not a hero, he was a villain who died a heros death. One good act should not absolve him of all his crimes.

Yeah, this. Let's assume the Banshee Queen died a true death and saved Azeroth in the process. Would that act be worthy of respect? Sure, but by no means would her past and numerous atrocities suddenly become irrelevant.

[Deleted]

Am I the only person who doesn't give a shit about Orcs? Sometimes I feel like Blizzard want Orcs to be the single most important race in the entire game.

[mysticx]

Grom was a psycho, in our timeline he was pretty much first in line for the demon kool-aid, then he did it AGAIN because the night elves somehow objected to his chopping down their entire forest, the only things on his mind were killing and conquest, oh wait! but he did one single good thing in the end (More out of rage over being enslaved than any regret on his part), that makes up for everything! No, it doesn't, it's orc-logic to assume that killing once for good reasons makes up for a lifetime of killing for bad reasons...

And in the alternative timeline, he doesn't go for demon-juice but still gets his "Conquering psycho"-routine on, so much for "Demons made him do it", right? And in the end he'll end up ass-deep in demon-related trouble anyway, so Grom was never a good guy, he was a bad guy who did one decent thing, which isn't nearly the same.

[Jotaux]

Grom is older than Thrall, but Garrosh isn't.

In Beyond the Dark Portal Garrosh was at least fighting age and was not artificially aged like other orcs since he is brown skinned. This makes him at the very least 6 years old (orcs age quickly then slow down, as per Rise of the Horde) When Blackmoore finds Thrall can be disputed, but at the most it would be 2 years before Beyond the Dark Portal but I would say months would be more accurate. This makes Garrosh at least 4 years older than Thrall. I would guess its closer to 10.

[Kitana]

He's not the bad guy, he's the stupid guy.

LOL You win an Internet for that post!

Arthas never struck me as Emo.

Me either.

[CottonBall]

Why? Because Hellscream is a name attached to orcs. Orcs will be orcs.

[Deleted]

In Beyond the Dark Portal Garrosh was at least fighting age and was not artificially aged like other orcs since he is brown skinned. This makes him at the very least 6 years old (orcs age quickly then slow down, as per Rise of the Horde) When Blackmoore finds Thrall can be disputed, but at the most it would be 2 years before Beyond the Dark Portal but I would say months would be more accurate. This makes Garrosh at least 4 years older than Thrall. I would guess its closer to 10.

Yup, Garrosh was sick as a child. I believe there was a village for the sick in Nagrand, where Garrosh lived for quite some time. Because of that he didn't have much to do with the war and all, which is why he's still brown.
Thrall was born and raised on Azeroth, so he couldn't possibly be older than Garrosh.

[Mic_128]

econd time.

Be happy that Grom at least gets final boss status, look how badly Ner'zhul got boned by Blizzard.

I've never understood this logic. Ner'zhul was deceived, and set the Orcs up to be taken by demons. He drew the line at selling their souls, but is then replaced by Gul'dan. This is explained to the rest of the Horde as him being too old and standing down. He's left alive, broken, because it was amusing to see him so weak and pathetic. In the novels after Gul'dan's defeat, he's still hated and loathed by most of the remaining Orcs for fooling them, and being fooled himself.

Why would he ever have a position of great power again?

[Kahmal]

Grom was a psycho, in our timeline he was pretty much first in line for the demon kool-aid, then he did it AGAIN because the night elves somehow objected to his chopping down their entire forest, the only things on his mind were killing and conquest, oh wait! but he did one single good thing in the end (More out of rage over being enslaved than any regret on his part), that makes up for everything! No, it doesn't, it's orc-logic to assume that killing once for good reasons makes up for a lifetime of killing for bad reasons...

And in the alternative timeline, he doesn't go for demon-juice but still gets his "Conquering psycho"-routine on, so much for "Demons made him do it", right? And in the end he'll end up ass-deep in demon-related trouble anyway, so Grom was never a good guy, he was a bad guy who did one decent thing, which isn't nearly the same.

Once again Grom was ignorant the first time about the blood, he didn't know it was the blood of a giant space demon. The second time it was drink up or get slaughtered by Cenarius.

In the alternate timeline he's probably quite influenced by his son, who warns him about the blood, and possible other things where he doesn' tell his father the whole story.

[Kahmal]

Also we seem to forget that the Old Horde was decieved from the get go. Ner'zhul combined the Orcish clans because he had a vision from his late wife that the Dranei were a threat to them. That vision came from Kil'Jaeden to Deciever. When he found this out it was too late and that prick Gul'dan became Kil'jaeden's willing servant.

Grom made a few ill decisions that just happened to be extremely detrimental, just keep in mind they weren't doing so well in the war against the Dranei, so he was all for a power boost. Garrosh however has two extreme personality shifts, one from TBC to WoTLK explained by his new found pride in his father's name. The next still isn't explained much in Cata while he was an idiot for a leader he wasn't without honor, but in MoP he just goes bad shit crazy. His biggest redeeming quality was how disgusted he was when one of his officers bombed an entire settlement including women and children, not only was it disgraceful but it was cowardly.....yet he goes on to do the same thing in Theramore.

Why does Garrosh suddenly lose his honor, something very important to both the Old Horde and the New. The doesn't set foot in Pandaria until after the Theramore atrocity so I doubt it was corruption from Y'shaarj. Does his quest to give his people security and power make him lose his sanity? Because...jeez the Horde weren't doing all that bad, it's not like he was ever put in desperate situations like Arthas or Kael'thas.

[Rivellana]

Garrosh didn't drink the blood because at the time, he was ill (red pox, iirc), Thrall was born on Azeroth, green skinned like his mother and father. Thall was raised by a human who made him a gladiator and although his age isn't specifically stated, he was probably in his late teens when he escaped, meaning he began to lead the orcs in his early twenties (at the absolute latest).

Garrosh on the other hand, must have been born before the drinking of the blood, 35+ years ago, especially since he was ill when the blood was drank by the orcs meaning he was either a child, maybe in his early teens at the time, so in essence, Garrosh is older than Thrall.

I think it's safe to assume that Thrall is in his late twenties or early thirties, making Garrosh at least, late thirties early forties.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Red_pox
I've read on a few wiki pages (can't remember all of them right now) that Garrosh was with the Mag'har at the time that the orcs drank the demon blood. The Mag'har were ill with the red pox and the town was quarantined. It was also supposedly the reason that they avoided the fel taint that wasn't related to the drinking of the blood as they were not near warlocks and fel magic when the orcs started practicing it.

And to answer the OP, while it's true that Grom didn't know that it was the blood of Mannoroth before agreeing to drink it, he did volunteer to be the first to drink a nasty glowing yellow-green liquid (offered by Gul'dan, of all orcs) without even so much as asking what it was and what it would do to him.

[Asiel]

Taran Zhu didn't "slander" Grom. He was simply using Grom's story as a way to piss Garrosh off.

Also, if I remember correctly, Cenarius was just protecting the forest from the Orcs. That's pretty much his job. It wasn't malicious against the Orcs. They invaded, he defended.

[Stormdash]

Taran Zhu didn't slander Grom because slander is something untrue about the victim. Taran Zhu spoke only truth about Grommash Hellscream. And Garrosh Hellscream, for that matter.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Taran Zhu didn't "slander" Grom. He was simply using Grom's story as a way to piss Garrosh off.

Also, if I remember correctly, Cenarius was just protecting the forest from the Orcs. That's pretty much his job. It wasn't malicious against the Orcs. They invaded, he defended.

The orcs didn't know the forests were sacred to the Elves.
If I remember correctly, the Elves start the attack in a mission during WC3.

You're harvesting lumber with your peons then you get attacked by archers.
There was no warning by the Elves. You may claim that the orcs wouldn't listen anyway, but that's a whole other story.