Why can Hunters move, but Other Ranged Can't?

[Deleted]

They should at least bring back the 5 yard minimum range for Hunter's in PvP so there is some way to counter their damage.

This is actually the reason. It was meant to make their deadzone bearable and balanced, however with the removal off the deadzone they get another can of worms in terms of balancing mobility vs dps for hunters.

[Gisen]

Yeah.
This is my problem with that line of reasoning.

Why do other ranged classes have to suffer to maintain Hunter "uniqueness" when Hunters were given more interesting versions of Rogue defining mechanics like Stealth and Poisons?

Yeah, I personally always thought the defining traits of hunters were dealing physical damage from afar with a bow/gun, shrug.

[clevin]

Yeah.
This is my problem with that line of reasoning.

Why do other ranged classes have to suffer to mainting Hunter "uniqueness" when Hunters were given more interesting versions of Rogue defining mechanics like Stealth and Poisons?

Let's say you could move but you'd have your cast time spells hit less hard so compensate for the fact that you don't have downtime due to movement... would you be OK with that?

[Hitei]

Let's say you could move but you'd have your cast time spells hit less hard so compensate for the fact that you don't have downtime due to movement... would you be OK with that?

I don't play ranged, so my opinion doesn't matter.
But I would say that your suggestion would be fair if Hunter shots also hit less hard to compensate.

The point is that other ranged have their damage severely reduced by needing to move, which happens on a lot of fights, while hunters are fine (Or I guess get a small decrease? I don't know if sniper training still exists in some form, I don't pay much attention to everyday hunter changes, just large ones.)

[Viradiance]

For the same reason every other class has some niche.

"Why can Rogues stealth?"

[Hitei]

For the same reason every other class has some niche.

"Why can Rogues stealth?"

Again, this would be a reasonable argument if it weren't for the fact that Hunters have a more unique and interesting stealth.

[HardlyWaken]

For the same reason every other class has some niche.

"Why can Rogues stealth?"

Druids (all forms) can stealth and so can hunters. They just aren't as good at it.

Hunters are full mobile, Ele Shaman had a mobile filler. See what I mean? You can have a niche without completely cornering the market.

[Pengalor]

Again, this would be a reasonable argument if it weren't for the fact that Hunters have a more unique and interesting stealth.

Wat? It's not unique or interesting and it's an unquestionably worse stealth than Rogues have....

[Feali]

Huh.. This Stealth debate is popping up everywhere now.

[Queen of Hamsters]

1. They're not CASTERS, but they have to manage their resources instead.

2. It doesn't make sense for a hunter to have to stand still other than for maybe a few abilities that hit very hard. I'll take 100% mobility over that any day though.

3. People being so in love with movement are free to roll a hunter themselves. Easy as that.

[Feali]

Wat? It's not unique or interesting and it's an unquestionably worse stealth than Rogues have....

First of all: it's not worse. And second: that wasn't even the point he was trying to get across.

[Aydinx2]

That's a poor argument.
They are ranged, so the same should apply.

But hunters are the only ranged deeps that use autoattacks.
Also it's just more logical mechanics wise. An agile(ity) hunter should be able to move.

[clevin]

I don't play ranged, so my opinion doesn't matter.
But I would say that your suggestion would be fair if Hunter shots also hit less hard to compensate.

The point is that other ranged have their damage severely reduced by needing to move, which happens on a lot of fights, while hunters are fine (Or I guess get a small decrease? I don't know if sniper training still exists in some form, I don't pay much attention to everyday hunter changes, just large ones.)

Sigh.... hunter damage right now is balanced around the fact that we can move. If you removed our ability to use cast time shots on the move you'd need to buff their damage to compensate.

Come on people, math.

[foxHeart]

Because it's Blizzard.

[7seti]

Steady shot, that's why. Hunters have to use an ability with a cast-time to maintain their resource pool. A mana-using class doesn't have that limitation.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Because hunters aren't casters; they are considered melee DPS, just at long range.

You mean physical DPS, but ranged. "Melee combat" can't be ranged.

[HardlyWaken]

Steady shot, that's why. Hunters have to use an ability with a cast-time to maintain their resource pool. A mana-using class doesn't have that limitation.

I thought that was to counter the constant stream of uninterruptable instant attacks, not the mobility...

[Pengalor]

First of all: it's not worse.

Yes, actually, it is. It is factually, objectively worse. It's either only stealth when we stand still or stealth at all times with a 50% movement speed reduction. Sure, we can launch traps (two of which are entirely useless in any situation where camo would be useful) but rogues get the same lenience with Sap. In WoD, we'll get a heal from it which is nice but we don't have a decent way to break combat to get back into stealth so most times it'll be a 6 second tick, not amazing.

And second: that wasn't even the point he was trying to get across.

Well, yes, it is. Their argument hinged on it being a 'unique and more interesting stealth' than rogues. It isn't. Case closed.

I get that they're trying to point to homogenization but that really doesn't matter as rogues are still the best class for the stealth niche and that was the point of the person they replied to.

[sizzlinsauce]

because you stand still for one second and cast out shit that crits for 3 mill. hunters and melee barely hit the 1m crit marker. it's balanced your spells hit harder to compensate for movement.

[Hitei]

Wat? It's not unique or interesting and it's an unquestionably worse stealth than Rogues have....

It is unique and more interesting.
It is Rogue stealth +Immunity to ranged attacks, +Able to use traps, +Able to use flare; an anti stealth ability, +Passive Healing in WoD
-Speed.

How exactly is that unquestionably worse? The speed is absolutely outweighed by the benefits.

And even if it were "worse" than stealth, it doesn't change the fact that it's the defining mechanic of rogues (and ferals who are based on rogues) and was given over to hunters. It is akin to rogues in WoD being able to tame beasts out in the world, but they do X% less damage than hunter pets.

Is that fine?

Steady shot, that's why. Hunters have to use an ability with a cast-time to maintain their resource pool. A mana-using class doesn't have that limitation.

Sigh.... hunter damage right now is balanced around the fact that we can move. If you removed our ability to use cast time shots on the move you'd need to buff their damage to compensate.

Come on people, math.

Like I said, I don't play ranged or pay a ton of attention to hunter tuning. So if you would be kind enough to provide a source wherein Hunters do less damage than all casters while both are standing still, that would be very helpful.

I fail to see how having to cast steady shot is the trade off for movement. Destro has to cast incinerate to build Chaos Bolts, demo has to build demonic energy for its burst. The point is both that Hunters can move (something that becomes unfun, and detrimental for other ranged) and that moving doesn't severely impact Hunter DPS, where other ranged drop quite a bit.