In WoD will DW or 2H be better for PvP and PvE respectively?

[diddle]

As the title suggests, at least from what has been seen in beta.

[Callimonk]

I'll assume you mean for WW.

DW >>>> 2H, as expected. At least, that's what logging is shown. The things built in to actually align the two may be broken - or at least, *were* broken when I first tested.

[Gemini Soul]

No matter what DW will always win out with same Ilvl weps because of double enc proc's. Enc aside dw seems to still be putting out a lot more than 2H, seems they still haven't aligned them yet like they did with MoP like Alysmera has said.

[Hottie4Hire]

No matter what DW will always win out because of double enc proc's. Enc aside dw seems to still be putting out a lot more than 2H, seems they still haven't aligned them yet like they did with MoP like Alysmera has said.

It is 100% not true that DW will always win because of double enchanting procs.

[Babylonius]

I would personally much prefer WW/BrM to focus on using 2H weapons. They fit the class more and other NPC monks use 2H. It would also allow us to only compete with Druids for weapons as opposed to Enh and the million Rogues out there.

[Callimonk]

I would personally much prefer WW/BrM to focus on using 2H weapons. They fit the class more and other NPC monks use 2H. It would also allow us to only compete with Druids for weapons as opposed to Enh and the million Rogues out there.

God, this x1000.

Also, there's been talk that they're not supposed to double-proc enchants anymore. Forget where I read that.

[Jocias]

It is 100% not true that DW will always win because of double enchanting procs.

Assuming DW and 2H are of equal ilvl, both on live and in beta, DW outperforms 2H in just about every aspect for WW and BrM. It should be closer in WoD, though.

God, this x1000.

Also, there's been talk that they're not supposed to double-proc enchants anymore. Forget where I read that.

I remember hearing about that, but I can't find it anywhere. If anyone knows the source from the double enchant proc change, please link it.

Assuming we don't get double procs from enchants and Tiger Strikes has been normalized between DW and 2H, which it has to an extent since it's only supposed to proc from successful hits (it was bugged on beta at one point. Not sure if it's actually doing that), the difference between 2H and DW in WoD should be smaller than it is on live.

Assuming the difference in damage is minuscule, I'll continue to DW. I love my shovel transmog.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...glitz/advanced

[Hottie4Hire]

Assuming DW and 2H are of equal ilvl, both on live and in beta, DW outperforms 2H in just about every aspect for WW and BrM. It should be closer in WoD, though.

I know that. All I meant was that it's still possible for 2H to be better than DW even with double proc'ing enchants. It doesn't work that way currently of course, but it could. He's wrong and it could lead to a wrong assumption later down the road depending on how Blizzard tries to balance 2h vs DW.

[Gemini Soul]

I know that. All I meant was that it's still possible for 2H to be better than DW even with double proc'ing enchants. It doesn't work that way currently of course, but it could. He's wrong and it could lead to a wrong assumption later down the road depending on how Blizzard tries to balance 2h vs DW.

As long as your spec can DW and can double proc encs DW will always win out with same ilvl weps.

Why do you think they make the 2H users hit harder, only way they can keep in line with DW dps.

Look at Frost DK, DW beats out 2H all the time. Same with Arms vs Furry. It's just the way the combat engine works, fast DW attacks VS slow 2H.

Even if you couldn't double proc the same enchant then you can run 2 different enc's.

[Deleted]

I'm a bit disappointed here, when MoP just came out and they praised themself on a job well done regarding the DW vs 2H balance...yeah, didn't work out that well.. 10% less damage isn't balanced.


I really wish that it's not going to be more than 2-3% in WoD

[Stuffs]

Assuming DW and 2H are of equal ilvl, both on live and in beta, DW outperforms 2H in just about every aspect for WW and BrM. It should be closer in WoD, though.

I think he had something in mind along the lines of Frost Deathknights. It's very possible for 2H to be better than DW for them, it's not a garuanteed thing

Assuming the difference in damage is minuscule, I'll continue to DW. I love my shovel transmog.

I'm pretty sure there's a 2H version of the shovel

[Jocias]

I think he had something in mind along the lines of Frost Deathknights. It's very possible for 2H to be better than DW for them, it's not a garuanteed thing


I'm pretty sure there's a 2H version of the shovel

At no point was DK mentioned. Since this is the monk forum, it's best to assume the question is in relation to monks. At no time in the history of time has 2H ever been better than DW for WW (I think the same applies to BrM, but I didn't follow BrM theorycrafting in early MoP). Assuming the changes Blizz said they'd make months ago are implemented, DW and 2H should be pretty close right now. If memory serves, DW is still simming just a bit higher right now.

On the shovel front: Yeah, there is a 2H version, but I don't have it and don't want to farm for it. As long as DW is superior to or equal with 2H, I'll probably just keep DW if I have a choice.

[Ulfhedinn]

As long as your spec can DW and can double proc encs DW will always win out with same ilvl weps.

Why do you think they make the 2H users hit harder, only way they can keep in line with DW dps.

Look at Frost DK, DW beats out 2H all the time. Same with Arms vs Furry. It's just the way the combat engine works, fast DW attacks VS slow 2H.

Even if you couldn't double proc the same enchant then you can run 2 different enc's.

yeah they totally couldn't nerf DW or buff 2h. That isn't an option..

- - - Updated - - -

I would personally much prefer WW/BrM to focus on using 2H weapons. They fit the class more and other NPC monks use 2H. It would also allow us to only compete with Druids for weapons as opposed to Enh and the million Rogues out there.

I like staff, polearm and fist weapons. Those all fit the monk imo. Swords make no sense for monks... Why would I punch and kick people when I have two swords on my back?

[Gemini Soul]

yeah they totally couldn't nerf DW or buff 2h. That isn't an option..

It isn't an option because they would NEVER intentionally make one stronger than the other, they would balance them and balanced DW always wins out with same ilvl weps.

[Ulfhedinn]

It isn't an option because they would NEVER intentionally make one stronger than the other, they would balance them and balanced DW always wins out with same ilvl weps.

I don't even.... wow.

[Gemini Soul]

I don't even.... wow.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Lyamoorka]

Tested dw with 2 marks of warsong-procking together. 2 stacks/sec decaying.

[Hottie4Hire]

It isn't an option because they would NEVER intentionally make one stronger than the other, they would balance them and balanced DW always wins out with same ilvl weps.

This is such a ridiculous thing to say. How do you not see that?

They want to balance them. So WHY would the balance them in such a way that it inbalances them? That makes no sense. DW being better just happens to be what they're comfortable with. They could change their mind on a whim and make 2H better if they wanted to (but still very close). They just don't because they don't care that much. They're close enough.

Anyway, your argument is wrong. Blizzard could buff 2H enough that it is better than double enchants. The double enchants aren't some impossible-to-beat amazing gear choice. They never have been. That's not the way the game works.

[Gemini Soul]

This is such a ridiculous thing to say. How do you not see that?

They want to balance them. So WHY would the balance them in such a way that it inbalances them? That makes no sense. DW being better just happens to be what they're comfortable with. They could change their mind on a whim and make 2H better if they wanted to (but still very close). They just don't because they don't care that much. They're close enough.

Anyway, your argument is wrong. Blizzard could buff 2H enough that it is better than double enchants. The double enchants aren't some impossible-to-beat amazing gear choice. They never have been. That's not the way the game works.

I never said that they would inbalance them, in fact i said they never would, and i didn't even bring up wep encs in the post you quoted...

They would NEVER make one stronger than the other on purpose they will keep them balance, enc's a side wep's same ilvl DW will always beat out 2H. Only way 2H would pull ahead is if the weapon is a lot better.

It is how the game works , why do you think every spec that can only use a 2H has some form of +% damage passive, its the only way they can keep up with their DW counterparts of the same class. Arms vs Fury, DW Frost vs 2H Frost.


A WW would want to DW because of Tiger Strikes, DW has faster and more often AA making it proc it more and maintaining a higher up-time than a 2H would.

[Jocias]

Monks have a passive ability that increases haste for 2H and damage for DW AAs. This effectively evens out the damage difference from AAs alone. If Tiger Strikes only procced from successful melee attack rather than from all, the only difference would come from weapon enchants. They were supposed to fix the issue with Tiger Strikes proccing from misses, but it doesn't look like they have.

Our special attacks use a damage formula that normalizes damage between 2H and DW, so if they fix Tiger Strikes, the only difference would be the double weapon enchant procs.

Also, don't forget that 2H weapons also have extra secondary stats over DW, which can help to soften the double enchant issue. Especially now that the weapon enchants don't increase our primary stats.