Thoughts on Survival Instincts change ? (Latest Beta Build 18837 - Sep 9)

[gestapo]

Looks like SI duration was cut down to half in the latest build:

Feral & Guardian - Survival Instincts now lasts for 6 sec, down from 12 sec.

For reference, the ability:

Survival Instincts
Druid - Feral & Guardian Spec
Instant 3 min recharge
Requires Druid (Feral, Guardian)
2 charges
Reduces all damage taken by 50% for 6 sec. Max 2 charges.

What does the druid community think of this change? On one hand I feel that more abilities in game should be pre-emptively used, at least in terms of pvp. However, given that the amount was reduced to a 50% dr from 70% dr, the shorter duration might mean Feral being too squishy - my concern being primarily stunlocked by rogues for e.g.
As is you have to pre-wall, but with the change it only lasts 6sec and if i'm not mistaken you can't use the second charge back to back.

Thoughts ?

[Rioo]

So lets see, first SI got buffed to 70% dr and 2 charges because we lost dispersion/bubble. Then we lost barkskin, then SI got nerfed back to 50%, and now it's only 6 seconds. Add to that the nerf to bear health and armor, which affect all druid specs.

I thought Blizzard separated cat and bear so we would be our own spec, but why is it that we're still getting heavily nerfed because of guardians?

Feral really needs something or we'll be so bad on any encounter where we need a CD more than once a minute (fml in PvP). I think at this stage we need barkskin back, but this late into the beta I'd even settle with combining our +20% healing and 10% dr glyphs.

[Deleted]

So lets see, first SI got buffed to 70% dr and 2 charges because we lost dispersion/bubble. Then we lost barkskin, then SI got nerfed back to 50%, and now it's only 6 seconds. Add to that the nerf to bear health and armor, which affect all druid specs.

I thought Blizzard separated cat and bear so we would be our own spec, but why is it that we're still getting heavily nerfed because of guardians?

Feral really needs something or we'll be so bad on any encounter where we need a CD more than once a minute (fml in PvP). I think at this stage we need barkskin back, but this late into the beta I'd even settle with combining our +20% healing and 10% dr glyphs.

I agree. We are now essentially in a position where we have lost Barkskin, MoU and Bubble/Dispersion and SI has simply been cut in half and put into two charges. Our sustained damage survivability still looks fine but I think we will be extremely vulnerable to burst and stunlocks.

[Prode]

Unless you play from spellbook ferals r unkillable in WoD. Considering you have complaints I suspect spellbook.

[gestapo]

Unless you play from spellbook ferals r unkillable in WoD. Considering you have complaints I suspect spellbook.

Could you explain this in English? I'm not following the cryptic message. Overall self-healing and particularly hybrid healing seems to be too strong in WoD, based on beta feedback.

However, Blizzard might be taking the stance that 'healing' is a part of a hybrid's defensive toolkit. I know quite a few people don't like that mechanic and prefer having straightforward DR abilities. If this is true, we won't see much of a reduction in hybrid healing (though pures self-healing would still need nerfing). I'm okay with that because I can adapt to a healing-centric playstyle, but it's all up in the air since this numbers tuning is taking forever.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree. We are now essentially in a position where we have lost Barkskin, MoU and Bubble/Dispersion and SI has simply been cut in half and put into two charges. Our sustained damage survivability still looks fine but I think we will be extremely vulnerable to burst and stunlocks.

See above. Blizzard might intend for us to keep ourselves alive through regular stuff like rejuv rolling and general self healing. Not sure how I feel about it, but that seems to be the direction.

[Deleted]

Could you explain this in English? I'm not following the cryptic message.

It's a common joke between (EU?) pvp players xD
Someone is so absurdly slow to react or combo skills that the only possible explanation is that they click their spells from their spellbook. Even clicking spells from their bars would be faster.


As for the second part:
DRs scale better with being trained by multiple targets, and with being bursted by stacked CDs / pre-pooled energy bars. Hybrid heals can be used on your mates but cost you GCDs. Apart from that the net effect on your health bar should be absolutely the same between the two.
I prefer DRs and I fear that in the upcoming healing nerf (if it's not upcoming WoD will be another expansion that's dead to pvpers) hybrid healing will be nerfed into the ground with pure dps healing, without hybrids being brought back up to par if necessary.

[gestapo]

It's a common joke between (EU?) pvp players xD
Someone is so absurdly slow to react or combo skills that the only possible explanation is that they click their spells from their spellbook. Even clicking spells from their bars would be faster.

I see. Well, I suspect his complaint is due to the strong overhealing - a valid one at that.

As for the second part:
DRs scale better with being trained by multiple targets, and with being bursted by stacked CDs / pre-pooled energy bars. Hybrid heals can be used on your mates but cost you GCDs. Apart from that the net effect on your health bar should be absolutely the same between the two.
I prefer DRs and I fear that in the upcoming healing nerf (if it's not upcoming WoD will be another expansion that's dead to pvpers) hybrid healing will be nerfed into the ground with pure dps healing, without hybrids being brought back up to par if necessary.

Good point. In a 3v3 or RBG you're always going to be trained by 2 or more dps if you're the kill target. I can guarantee healing will be toned down, just as you also expect. Unforunately I have no faith in Blizzard who have been notorious in leaving specs like Feral in the dust after the first patch of an expansion because they didn't want to/know how to balance the class during beta.

[Deleted]

Yeah, they have the perfect tools to fine-tune feral survivability, more so than with most classes. But I'm willing to bet money on them not realizing it and fucking it up one way or another. They have proven too many times to be bad at theorycrafting and seeing patterns / obvious interactions.

Let's just see what the PTR brings [/reckless optimism]

[idmajestic]

I agree, I feel like Feral's should get barkskin back. It's very difficult to recover from a good opener from a rogue without it

[gestapo]

I agree, I feel like Feral's should get barkskin back. It's very difficult to recover from a good opener from a rogue without it

Seeing as healing is guaranteed to be nerfed and given the reduced duration and amount of SI, that would actually make the most sense. Keep in mind we also lost MoU and Symbiosis as well.