[6.2.3] Discipline Priest Discussion

[Squishysib]

Do you mean recent nerfs or did I miss some patch notes?
Depends what you define as serious progression. Top 10, 100, 1000, or 5000?
If you're maybe top 1000 world I would say; the weakest link in a chain is always the first to be replaced.

There is nothing wrong with trying other specs and classes, if anything it will help you understand the limits and strengths of them and enable you to play your main better.

I meant to say buffs and nerfs. And I'm in no danger of being replaced no matter what I do.

I don't mind playing holy as I said. I would prefer to play disc as that is both what I enjoy and am good at, hence my question of, is it viable for progression or is Holy the by and far better choice.

[PosPosPos]

Still divine star hits everything twice. Cascade hits once. Halo hits once.

So it's not divine star only.

It may be tier 90 only.



Divine hymn might be considered by the algorithm "once", like a channel.


Or the whole thing might be triggered at the first hit of a spell.


e.g. hots

It is a problem that is limited to T90 talents in general. Divine Star is the best spell for proccing SoL, but Cascade and Halo still does the job fairly well.

[Isheria]

With the recent buffs how do you guys feel about Disc having a spot in a serious progression group in WoD? I have some naysayers in my group and while I'm fine having to go Holy, Disc is my baby.

Disc can get the job fine still but you have to actually get rid of the habit of spamming holy nova 24/7 and wonder why you ain't top anymore, this doesn't work after the nerf to said ability.

[Deleted]

Where did you find that info?

Front page a few days ago?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/?page=3

[Deleted]

Hm, that HN nerf was definitely not there on the changelog at first. It was certain that it only had the Spirit Shell change.


So, is it very nerfed now?

I don't see it tbh.



Unless it happened earlier than those notes.

- - - Updated - - -

Did that change go through for wednesday night at eu? Cause I have a thok fight to compare.

[Isheria]

Yes it was live on wednesday but lvl 90 logs are useless because SoO is overnerfed and you have ratings that won't be anywhere close to what you'll have on live in a few days/weeks.

[PosPosPos]

Disc can get the job fine still but you have to actually get rid of the habit of spamming holy nova 24/7 and wonder why you ain't top anymore, this doesn't work after the nerf to said ability.

PW:S is only about ~10% weaker than HN anyway if the latter doesn't overheal, so it doesn't really impact disc HPS that much.

[Jimjam38]

I think the Holy Nova nerf (and LOL DS buff) is just proof that blizzard listens to the the LFR complaints more than anyone else, and also just goes to show they have no fucking clue about this spec (or healing in general I think). They make half their decisions based on the generalized stereotypes that you hear about because none of them have ever actually tried to play disc (I'm actually starting to believe my own exaggerations now).

To anyone who actually understands the spec, HN isn't OP. All it is is a means to an end, that end being DA blanketing. Factor in that SoO is massively nerfed, health pools are effectively doubled, every disc is geared through the teeth with BiS stats cause we were the favorite in 5.4 and then all spirit magically turned into crit, and the result is us DA blanketing the most efficient way we can, which turns out to be HN spam.

What happens at 100? Well obviously not DA fucking blanketing, which relies on 30%+ crit, which even at 90 with 588 ilevel, half of my crit comes from gems which almost don't exist in WoD at any ilevel. Holy Nova spam will, at last, ONLY be used when people actually need healing. You just categorically won't be critting often enough to keep your DA blanket refreshed.

So, what does this nerf mean? Nothing other than a nerf to disc's throughput at 100, which was not at all an issue. Does it help prevent DA blanketing on hc garry farm? Not at all, actually it just made it worse since smaller absorbs make it even easier to snipe the Hpallas now, and if you have long enough to prepare your blanket, then it doesn't make a difference how strong HN is, because the DA cap isn't changed.
All this change does is make it more convoluted as to when it's best to PWS and when it's best to HN. Previously, HN was a distinct ~10-15% ahead of PWS when healing a full 5 targets, no overheal. Now it's going to be about even.

I seriously want to get up in Celestalon's face and let him know how retarded he is when it comes to disc. When the developers don't understand the spec as well as the players, you're gonna have a bad time.

Atm, for healing in WoD, I kinda just want to play my MW monk. There's something bizarrely more entertaining about spam shooting healing green beams at people, rather than dropping shiny circles on them. The 4pc + Pool of Mists actually makes MW really fun, trying to get ReM up on the most people then channeling Soothing Mist to make the most of it with the bonus Multistrike from the 4pc (at the end of the channel it's almost 50% multistrike). It makes me sad, because disc could have been fun like that. Now I think we just need a massive revamp, and we won't be getting it till next xpac. I'll stick with my priest for now, I guess, but I'm pretty apprehensive about how long I'll stay at it for.

I'm feeling unreasonably angry. I probably need to eat...

- - - Updated - - -

BTW does anyone know what haste rating it becomes worth weaving PWS into Stacked AoE healing with HN for the Borrowed Time benefit?

I suspect it would be a result of not only your haste rating but how long the Stacked AoE healing lasts for. Like how applying dots in AoE requires the targets to survive a minimum amount of time to make the application worth it, instead of just using your instantaneous damage ability. The Hand of Guldan vs Chaos Wave thing (as an extreme example). Obviously it you only have 5 seconds of healing it's not worth the PWS, unless you were able to us the PWS before the AoE healing began. On the other hand, if it's a situation akin to nuroshen, and the stacked AoE healing lasts for minutes at a time, then at some haste rating it will become worth using PWS for BT in order to get more HN out.

The duration of the stacked healing would have to be long enough that the additional haste, and hence additional casts of HN outweighed the throughput 'loss' of the PWS cast. This would also depend on whether the PWS will be fully absorbed or if it will have some unavoidable overhealing. Obviously the less haste rating you have, the less the effect of BT, meaning that the HN spam would have to last even longer to make the BT worthwhile. On the other hand, the more haste you have the more benefit you get from BT, meaning that the stacked AoE heal doesn't have to last as long before it becomes worth weaving PWS.

This isn't necessarily in order to determine anything as clear cut as haste breakpoints, but rather to know when you should start to utilize BT relative to your own gear.

[Haywire5714]

So where do the level 90 talents stand at this point for WoD? Cascade for spread, Halo for stack, Divine star useless? or Cascade for spread, Divine Star for stack, Halo useless?

@Atonement I feel you bro; but please don't leave the priests forums I need you in my life, your posts have helped me out so much!!! (I never got beta)

[Symmone]

Id like to thank all the awesome disc priests here as well! Im not much of a theorycrafter so finding you all on here has been very helpful. I am really bummed by the turnout of disc because i LOVE this spec. Its a difficult thing to explain to other people, most guilds assume disc is just perma-OP and are so excited for WoD because of it.

Even if Discs raiding healing capabilities are trash, maybe we can simply focus on tank healing with CoW. If it werent for that Im not sure Id even want to play Disc.
I guess Ill just have to wait till 100 to really decide what Im going to do. I also have a Holy Pally I can switch to if things are just dont recover.

le sigh.

[Floopa]

Id like to thank all the awesome disc priests here as well! Im not much of a theorycrafter so finding you all on here has been very helpful. I am really bummed by the turnout of disc because i LOVE this spec. Its a difficult thing to explain to other people, most guilds assume disc is just perma-OP and are so excited for WoD because of it.

Even if Discs raiding healing capabilities are trash, maybe we can simply focus on tank healing with CoW. If it werent for that Im not sure Id even want to play Disc.
I guess Ill just have to wait till 100 to really decide what Im going to do. I also have a Holy Pally I can switch to if things are just dont recover.

le sigh.

what? disc is the strongest healer at 100...

"recover" from what? not being able to just mindlessly spam damage into the boss while maintaining #1 spot on healing? i guess it's a bit harder now, you just spam PW:S and HN for get #1 spot on healing lol

[Crzed]

BTW does anyone know what haste rating it becomes worth weaving PWS into Stacked AoE healing with HN for the Borrowed Time benefit?

What metric are you using to determine its worth (PWS is more throughput than HN)? There's really no break even point of significance as PWS is great for triage and has less potential for overheal. At any point requiring significant healing you should have close to full uptime on BT even when stacked (at any haste).

As for the HN nerf, I think it was more than justified. Forgetting about pre-patch status entirely, it was too strong at 100. Even after the 15% nerf it is still a viable option in the greater majority of encounters and acts to balance out the mana cost of PWS. Even with solace, overuse of PWS will still run you OOM. Arguably, I think it's a step forward in the dynamic decision making aspect of the spec as well, even if it does just slightly push throughput towards a different one button spam.

[rylai21]

what? disc is the strongest healer at 100...

"recover" from what? not being able to just mindlessly spam damage into the boss while maintaining #1 spot on healing? i guess it's a bit harder now, you just spam PW:S and HN for get #1 spot on healing lol

Sorry, but no. Disc will be decent for sure, but definitely not "the strongest" healer at 100. If all you're casting at 100 is PW:S and HN then you'd be a pretty shit priest too, and don't really know what you're doing. Disc is certainly no more 1 or 2 button spammy than the other healing specs at 100.

Here's some logs from the live raid. Disc is more or less balanced at this gear level:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ealing&fight=6

[Floopa]

the gear level was 670 for a raid designed around 655.

when you're doing mythic (designed around 680) in 650 gear then you'll realise why disc is the strongest healer*

* = it becomes mandatory to survive stuff.

[rylai21]

the gear level was 670 for a raid designed around 655.

Over-gearing encounters further favors absorbs.

when you're doing mythic (designed around 680) in 650 gear then you'll realise why disc is the strongest healer*

* = it becomes mandatory to survive stuff.

Except there aren't any damage patterns where it's going to be mandatory to have to have an absorb to survive in the first tier that we've seen.

Just sounds like butthurt from playing a year of SoO to me.

[Floopa]

Over-gearing encounters further favors absorbs.



Except there aren't any damage patterns where it's going to be mandatory to have to have an absorb to survive in the first tier that we've seen.

Just sounds like butthurt from playing a year of SoO to me.

perhaps it is

or perhaps disc's absorbs are dominant no matter what.

[Melchey]

What metric are you using to determine its worth (PWS is more throughput than HN)? There's really no break even point of significance as PWS is great for triage and has less potential for overheal. At any point requiring significant healing you should have close to full uptime on BT even when stacked (at any haste).

Sounded like a breakpoint at which the GCD for using the PWS for borrowed time gives equal or greater HPS than if you simply just casted HN for the same duration. Essentially I guess he's looking for a point at which you'd gain another HN (or instant I guess?) in the BT window. Anyway, I don't think it's going to matter because either it's going to be way too much haste that's giving up other important/better stats or if you're dealing with extended raid damage periods you're likely to have PW:S on preemptively or will be using it to save important targets. But as Crzed said, should have BT up 100% anyway.

[Crzed]

PWS is outperforming HN in throughput so it would have to be another gcd in the BT window.

The question would then be what is the minimum haste you need to have 5 gcd's fit in the BT window (so that the PWS you cast to refresh BT benefits from it)?

The answer is 25% buffed haste. Turns out being ~1360 haste minimum. Obviously, this number means nothing if you were to let BT fall off before refreshing. If you let BT fall off before refreshing you would need ~1450 haste minimum to extend BT into a fifth global. In practice, these exact numbers mean almost nothing. Your PWS usage won't be dictated by a strict rotation. The haste values are also far too high and the RoI isn't there. The takeaway from this being that you can gain a significant amount of throughput by refreshing BT rather than letting it fall off. Something to think about, but as with most things healing is just too dynamic to force yourself into a rotation like this. It's likely with how strong PWS is that you'll be keeping up BT without even thinking about it.

[Corpseflower]

I've been browsing the forums looking for a definite answer, still mostly only seeing 'guesses' with the older version of the racials (prior to Humans being changed.) Does anyone know which racials are currently the best in terms of Disc? Both Ally/Horde.

[rylai21]

Worgen or Blood Elf. But, they're all pretty close to where you wouldn't actually notice a difference either way. Play whatever is the prettiest!