[6.2.3] Discipline Priest Discussion

[Deleted]

Four healers is our ideal set up, but the last two or three raid days we've only had the 2 discs and 1 of the holy pallies and the tanks are barely not dying during breath or with add up with only the two discs and 1 pally. I'm not sure about how much mushroom uptime we really have. I don't know if there's a way to look at that during logs or not.

How? You have beacons on tanks, CoW on tanks, paladin keeps blue mushroom up, others heal green just before infest. Tank should never ever die especially with a disc focusing on them during shrooms.

[TehCrab]

What I want to ask is if mindbender is now close enough with PW:Solace, to justify using it to spare yourself GCDs.

I think that'll be the big question re-Holy, I think for Disc Solace will still be go to. I'll wait for one of the gurus to chime in though

[appro]

I think that'll be the big question re-Holy, I think for Disc Solace will still be go to. I'll wait for one of the gurus to chime in though

Definitely closer than before but I believe solace still edges in front if used perfectly. Solace suits disc far more due using holy fire on CD already so there isn't really much saved in terms of GCDs. Because of this there is a stronger argument for holy but min-max players will still use solace (it was so far in front before this).
Mindbender damage is a little higher and mana return will likely edge in front at a particular haste point, or shorter fights under lust. The required haste to put mindbender in front may be obtainable now or very soon. Sorry I can't calculate it now as I'm on a mobile.

[Floopa]

Saving grace is basically a 0 CD lay on hands and the penalty Ilis -15% healing for 10 seconds... Which may or may not affect PWS depending

And priests complain lol

This talent is borderline OP now

[Nurasu]

Saving grace is basically a 0 CD lay on hands and the penalty Ilis -15% healing for 10 seconds... Which may or may not affect PWS depending

And priests complain lol

This talent is borderline OP now

It does affect PW:S, so it won't be much use in a raid situation. It would basically be a replacement for Void Shift (occasional, niche use, except now at the cost of another talent). And if you needed it in a pvp situation, chances are the -15% debuff just fucked you right after.

[Candlemaster]

How? You have beacons on tanks, CoW on tanks, paladin keeps blue mushroom up, others heal green just before infest. Tank should never ever die especially with a disc focusing on them during shrooms.

You missed my first post where i said neither of our discs take CoW and take words of mending instead. =\ We've been struggling a lot on the healing of H imp. If it comes down to our usual 2 priests 1 paladin set up would you recommend one going CoW or just say one go holy or what set up would you recommend? (I hold no actual power of making either actually change but what would like to know what feedback I could get.)

[Deleted]

You missed my first post where i said neither of our discs take CoW and take words of mending instead. =\ We've been struggling a lot on the healing of H imp. If it comes down to our usual 2 priests 1 paladin set up would you recommend one going CoW or just say one go holy or what set up would you recommend? (I hold no actual power of making either actually change but what would like to know what feedback I could get.)

Oh, well guess your priests need to examine others logs more thoroughly if they don't want to continue holding your guild progression back.

Yes I would say never have 2 discs in a raid. 1 Holy 1 disc. Disc takes CoW on fights that the tank takes a lot of damage till gear is no longer an issue.

[CorpShephard]

Saving grace is basically a 0 CD lay on hands and the penalty Ilis -15% healing for 10 seconds... Which may or may not affect PWS depending

And priests complain lol

This talent is borderline OP now

On live this talent heals for 52k in my Garrison. If your paladins are toting less than 100k health then you need to remind them that they need to wear their gear during raid times.

The problem with Saving Grace is that there's nothing productive to do with the 8 second downtime. The debuff absolutely reduces absorbs and healing by 10% on live and likely it will go up to 15% for both when 6.1 comes out. There's only one way to "game" this downtime. Atonement healing scales 100% off of damage dealt. It is never boosted by healing increases but at the same time it is never decreased by healing debuffs. Thus you can do damage during Saving Grace to heal.

Atonement healing is absolutely pitiful though. Perhaps if Atonement healing was doubled we'd see some build emerge with Priests casting 2-3 Saving Graces and then spamming out some smites to heal the raid. As it stands though...

This talent would actually be okay for some other healers who have better ways to use their downtime! Monks can Fistweave at a far more competitive damage-to-healing rate during their weakened healing. They could quaff mana tea during downtimes and start healing again afterwards. They could start blanketing raids with Renewing Mist at the tail end of their weakened healing and have themselves in a strong position to spam Uplift shortly afterwards.

As it stands though Discipline Priests don't have much they can do during a downtime of 8 seconds of weakened healing other than dispel, throw out Power Word: Barrier, and atonement heal. That ain't viable. All of our healing and absorbs are upfront and immediate these days. No renews. No lifeblooms. There's no real way to game that debuff with such a straightforward toolkit.

It saddens me to see my Mistweaver Monk have a veritable plate of talent choices and build options coming up in the next patch. My priest however will not be changing gameplay at all. Discipline's plenty viable but I'm considering a swap just to have something more interesting and crunchy to play when BFR comes out.

[Floopa]

im confused

why does a 15% nerf to PWS stop you spamming PWS

or are you saving if PWS was to get nerfed by a further 15% the spell would be completely useless and never see the light of day again? i find that hard to believe

on beta saving grace had a 1600% sp coefficient which was completely nuts, it'll now have around 1k~% sp coefficient.

so your healing for around 80-90k (non crit) instantly and the penalty is 15% less healing for 8 seconds

how do people not think this talent is amazing lol

It saddens me to see my Mistweaver Monk have a veritable plate of talent choices and build options coming up in the next patch.

it's a facade, with the mana tea nerf you'll be forced to take shitty talents (ZS, CT) because the better talents (CB, RJW) are unsustainable after the mana nerf... meanwhile disc priests avoid all spirit gear and due to solace never go oom :'D

[ceddya]

im confused

why does a 15% nerf to PWS stop you spamming PWS

or are you saving if PWS was to get nerfed by a further 15% the spell would be completely useless and never see the light of day again? i find that hard to believe

on beta saving grace had a 1600% sp coefficient which was completely nuts, it'll now have around 1k~% sp coefficient.

so your healing for around 80-90k (non crit) instantly and the penalty is 15% less healing for 8 seconds

how do people not think this talent is amazing lol

It has a 1.5s cast, that's why. Or maybe it's because Disc also has access to PW:S (500%) and Penance (792%) as emergency spot heals too. How many fights are there where the extra healing from SG is worth losing overall throughput?

[Floopa]

It has a 1.5s cast, that's why. Or maybe Disc has access to PW:S (500%) and Penance (792%) as emergency spot heals too.

it's instant after the change ????

[ceddya]

it's instant after the change ????

It is. I must have missed it then!

Still, you're looking at an overall throughput loss even if you use SG optimally. Unless a fight comes with excessive, random ST burst damage, why would SG be worth that trade-off when Disc already has access to 2 potent spot heals?

[Floopa]

It is. I must have missed it then!

Still, you're looking at an overall throughput loss even if you use SG optimally. Unless a fight comes with excessive, random ST burst damage, why would SG be worth that trade-off when Disc already has access to 2 potent spot heals?

exactly it's a niche talent, but it's pretty strong imo. like you said disc has access to a lot of spot heals, but there are times when penance is on CD, weakened soul is up etc etc.

i loved saving grace on beta as holy, i thought it was completely crazy and am glad to see it returned to it's instant, super strong nature.

[ceddya]

exactly it's a niche talent, but it's pretty strong imo. like you said disc has access to a lot of spot heals, but there are times when penance is on CD, weakened soul is up etc etc.

i loved saving grace on beta as holy, i thought it was completely crazy and am glad to see it returned to it's instant, super strong nature.

I agree, it's a very niche talent that can be very potent given the right circumstances. I just wish the debuff wasn't so punitive (hello, Demonbolt!). I don't mind having to manage the debuff if it were only applicable to SG, but having it applied to the entire toolkit just seems rather anti-fun.

[CorpShephard]

Yeah. As long as Clarity of Will exists any burst damage that is predictable is far more efficiently dealt with using Clarity + PW:S + Penace without sacrificing any versatility in what you can do next.

Saving Grace... it's just hard to pick something that makes your overall output lower when it doesn't really match any boss's damage pattern yet. Extreme unpredictable single target burst damage isn't really in any fight I've seen. I suppose it will have the greatest mobility of the level 100 talents...? Ya don't need to stand still to cast PW:S though. Mobility just ain't a huge issue as Discipline.

It's nice that the talent is more viable than ever. That's not saying a huge amount... but you make some points. "Amazing" is not a word that I would use to describe the talent though!

I dun' wanna derail the thread... but it seemed like far more doors were being opened for monks than closed with their changes. Only time can really prove otherwise but having actual options at the level 100 level... that's nice. I'll just say that and no more.

[Nurasu]

The biggest problem for Disc is that if you cast a Shield at 1 second left of the debuff, it carries forward for another full 15 seconds or until the shield is consumed, since it is calculated at the time of the shield cast. It is not an 8 second debuff for Disc, you will almost always find it to be much, much longer as you continue casting as the debuff wears on.

[Anastacy]

Can someone explain Disc T17 2-piece to a math-tard? It doesn't seem worth it to me. 2 seconds for 3 ticks vs. 3 seconds for 4 ticks feels like a loss in relative power, and more prone to over-heal. Is the real attractiveness in more offensive ticks + extra Evangelism stack?

[Noradin]

Can someone explain Disc T17 2-piece to a math-tard? It doesn't seem worth it to me. 2 seconds for 3 ticks vs. 3 seconds for 4 ticks feels like a loss in relative power, and more prone to over-heal. Is the real attractiveness in more offensive ticks + extra Evangelism stack?

The stack and the extra healing as well as the fact that you do not need to use it offensively to get stacks anymore.

[ceddya]

The stack and the extra healing as well as the fact that you do not need to use it offensively to get stacks anymore.

The problem with it is that it adds an extra 1s to the channel, which makes it a lot susceptible to overhealing. I would still use it defensively when AA is up, but I suspect offensive Penance when the AA buff is down would be the way to go.

[Noradin]

The problem with it is that it adds an extra 1s to the channel, which makes it a lot susceptible to overhealing. I would still use it defensively when AA is up, but I suspect offensive Penance when the AA buff is down would be the way to go.

Whether that additional tick would be likely to overheal really depends on your healer team and on your target.
It didn't feel like much of an issue in the beta, but we will see I guess.