German Ethics Council: Incest is a Fundamental Right.

[zephid]

And again, suckle cell anemia is just one example of a serious genetic defect that doesn't require incest or even breeding in just a small gene pool to have. If you tried to say that anybody with the recessive gene could not have kids with somebody else with the recessive gene you would be completely dismissed. Same thing if you say that somebody who already has a predisposition for cancer (one of the gene already mutated) shouldn't have kids because it puts them at a huge risk you would be shot down again.

The discussion of if people should just have kids has come up around welfare and abortion, the current stance is that people can have sex and get pregnant if they want, an it's their choice what happens to te kid, that includes givin birth to one with defects. Women's right to choose and all that, I can't believe that it suddenly becomes super controversial--as far as this forum goes--when its about incest.

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How can you expect them to just abort the child? If a woman want to jae a kid she can and she shouldn't suffer for it.

I guess it becomes a question if it's fair for the child to maybe suffer because of his/her parents.

[Duravian]

I don't have a problem with it per se. I do think it's repulsive but maybe that's because I've been brought up in an age where it's always been unlawful. I wasn't brought up in an age where homosexuality has ever been illegal. It is of course all about perception but I do think the law should not interfere. It's been a law due to the scientific theories surrounding limitation of genes, and not of the act itself.

I do think perhaps if there's no offspring produced, then it should be up to the individuals to decide. I don't agree with it but I'm tolerant enough to understand that there's a lot of inconsistency in laws and why they exiat.



You can treat acne quite easily, at home even. It might not be quick to solve, it might be something you suffer with your entire life, but it can be eased. Major defects aren't something that can be treated easily.

PKU is a rare condition and I'd say it's an equal chance of being present in any offspring however they're conceived.

1 in 50 kids in the USA have PKU. Fact from last semesters genetics course.

[Giscoicus]

I guess it becomes a question if it's fair for the child to maybe suffer because of his/her parents.

But based on that should we let those in poverty bring a child into this work that they can't support? Even with government aid the child suffers from their parents economic conditions.

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I would ask what other sexual deviations you're referring to, but I'm sure I don't need more than one guess to figure it out.

He's right though, cuckolds are accepted even though some would consider it really weird.

I admit that even I see cucks are kinda off but how could I suggest that it's wrong for them to do that?

[Gum]

How can you expect them to just abort the child? If a woman want to jae a kid she can and she shouldn't suffer for it.

I dont, i dont care really. i dont, But if the main issue here is to prevent harmfull genetic defects, then surely we can make laws that prohibit those kids to live, regardless of whom they are made by, therefore making it quite easily acceptable to have an incestiruous relationship? I think we are on the same side of things, and if my post comes across as one that wants to limits human rights to live their life the way they want, that wasnt my intention. Im sure most people would agree when the government start taking away their rights to persue whatever hobbies they like.

[BadPhish]

This is the kind of garbage that only a first world nation would have to worry them selves about, a brother and sister to go at it; if it is not OK for dogs, then guess what its not OK for people, stupid. The same people that are OK with the notion of incest need to be ready for people that are going to inevitably try legitimize bestiality and pedophilia, "but kids cant consent!" wont matter once the precedence has been set it opens new questions as to what is classified as 'consenting" or "acceptable". If two loving family members what to take it to the next level... at least do the world a favor and get sterilized, so your home nation is not burdened with the support of your genetic fuck up.

[Dendrek]

BadPhish, that is an excellent example of a terrible slippery slope argument.

[Kraenen]

Not surprising at all. There is no more legitimate reason to have incest outlawed than any other sexual deviation. Either they should all be illegal or none of them should. Anything in between is simply hypocritical.

You know that no sex before marriage is deviate right?

[Gum]

This is the kind of garbage that only a first world nation would have to worry them selves about, a brother and sister to go at it; if it is not OK for dogs, then guess what its not OK for people, stupid. The same people that are OK with the notion of incest need to be ready for people that are going to inevitably try legitimize bestiality and pedophilia, "but kids cant consent!" wont matter once the precedence has been set it opens new questions as to what is classified as 'consenting" or "acceptable". If two loving family members what to take it to the next level... at least do the world a favor and get sterilized, so your home nation is not burdened with the support of your genetic fuck up.

How about you turn that thing around a bit? WHy stop at incest? Why not ban gay relationships? Why not ban Eating unhealthy? Why not ban anything that isnt seen as healthy/Good/Right/Acceptable? The thing is, the only reason that seems to resurface in every discussion regarding this is the increased chances of birthdefects, that if you know even the slightest bit about such things, are not only quite uncommon, its in the same range as many others that are fully allowed to recreate.. So, where do we stop? Arent old people allowed to have kids? Druggies? Should you be jailed for drinking while being pregnant and if so, why stop there? Drinking is bad in general. It should be banned! Also, if you dont run twice a week to keep a healthy lifestyle, you need to be fined.

Its a double edged blade that the founders of the USA quite simple understood moreso than the modern population it seems, wich is honestly quite sad...

You cant limit other peoples freedom to do what they want, regardless if you think its right or wrong, as long as it doesnt effect you in one way. That only leads to them wanted you to stop whatever you like to do, and im sure you would HATE if they got to decide if you could play videogames or not, based on some random moral idea that you didnt agree with, no?

Edit:
Guess dendrek put it nicely in a much shorter fashoin.. Dang

[Deleted]

In the case of the brother and sister in question, if I remember right, they had lost their parents and were adopted by different families. They somehow met, did not know they were siblings and fell in love, married and whatnot. This was a tricky case, yet here it was not the fault of their own and they should have been left to live together, for the deed was done, the chance of this situation happening is so small it only ever happened once and I doubt it will again. Neither of them was to blame in this case, nobody was truly to blame here.

Besides that... I don't know what to say, don't really find general incestuous relations ok, but as long as they don't have kids... you know that saying, what happens in the bedroom remains in the bedroom.

[Gumboy]

The same people that are OK with the notion of incest need to be ready for people that are going to inevitably try legitimize bestiality

I have no idea how anybody can argue that an animal is not consenting to sex, if they are "On top" and are not forced in any way. /unpopular opinion I guess. I am not involved in bestiality, but the "How can an animal consent!!!" argument is just stupid to me. There is a lot wrong/weird about bestiality, but in the specific situation of a male dog (As an example) "On top" without any forced shit going on..how is consent even an argument?

"The animal is to stupid to know what it is doing?" Pshaw.

[Masark]

The same people that are OK with the notion of incest need to be ready for people that are going to inevitably try legitimize bestiality

I think that's legal in Germany already.

[Deleted]

It's fine with me but having children wouldn't really be wise. Neither would having children at the age of 40 be, but apparently that's fine. Or being HIV positive and having children. Or doing alcohol and having children. Or doing drugs and being pregnant. There's plenty of other genetical defects that get inherited as well which have nothing to do with incest.

And regardless, we have a natural aversion against incest, I don't think we'd have to worry about generations of inbreeding. Incest is pretty rare and mostly happens when the siblings haven't shared their childhood, because apparently sharing a childhood creates natural sexual aversion for the other.

[Deleted]

Aside from the... Strangeness factor to me, i see no reason for legislation preventing two adults from doing mutually consenting acts.

If we outlaw things based upon distaste we best ban marmite and kiwi's first.

[Alzerri]

I didn't even know incest actually was a punishable crime in some countries. Wow. In my country it's regulated by the Family Code, which forbids marriage between siblings or parents and their children, but no one will prosecute your if you sleep with your brother. It's tabooed, but I guess no one would really care in the long run, you'll be the target of your local gossip for some time, but then something more exiting will become the focus. In fact, it was kinda normal some centuries ago, not sure about other countries, but here you can even read about incest in fairy tales.

This situation is different. Formally it is an incest, since the participants are siblings, but they had no knowledge of the fact so they just had a consentual sexual relationship that adult people (in various quantities) are allowed to have. I think the case should have been treated differently but the legal system might not allow that (I'm not familiar with the German legal system). I guess it's called the spirit of the law and in the said spirit there seems to be no crime. The letter of the law is a different matter however...

As for incest, I don't get that due to my upbringing and I believe that's the reason the thought is also revolting for most people here, but if we look past our social norms and try to envision a society with a different set of norms, it's just sex. The main reason it is tabooed is the "corrupted" gene pool, your offspring gets the same genes and all the "gifts" along with them such as allergies, genetically transmitted defects and disease, increased risk of mutations, etc. All the other things such as brotherly love and some "higher" forms of relations between siblings can be viewed as means to prevent young people from even thinking of having sex with each other though let's face it, it would have been a lot easier to have your first experience with your own sibling who is just as curious as you, lives in the same house and who you don't need to court for 3 years =) But natural selection says no society would adapt that model unless they had a watertight contraception method so you wouldn't get weak babies, but we mostly live by social norms established centuries or even millennia ago (at least when it comes to this particular matter) and those societies couldn't have such methods. BTW, an interesting fact: closed and remote sociaties, mainly ethnic minorities who live in far North like Chukchi had (not sure about 21st century, may be in some villages they still do) a tradition of women, even married, having sex with any traveler that came by and in the best case scenario getting pregnant with his child in order to strengthen their people by giving birth to a child with "new" genes since in such societies you don't really have any options of who to marry, the people are all related in some way =).

[Dezerte]

Incest that does not result in pregnancy should be legal. Problem is enforcing it in an ethical manner.

[Tzalix]

We have no right telling a brother and a sister they cannot sleep with each other. If they desire to have children, however, or they do not take the proper precautions to avoid pregnancy, then it's a different matter.

[Dendrek]

Marmite I can see, but Kiwis?

I suspect he's trying to make people hate him. I, for one, will hop on that bandwagon.

[Kujako]

Marmite I can see, but Kiwis?

Yea! Screw those guys. If I spend 12 hours on a plane they should have the decency to speak a different language when I get off!

[Alteiry]

There is plenty of evidence that incest leads to higher risks for genetic diseases

It's only like 4% higher the first generation. As long as the kids and grandkids procreate outside the family, it will barely register on the genepool.

[Ulmita]

Myself too, can't really say that i find the idea appealing however as most of you said if both parties want it and are adults then let them be.
I find more issues with letting junkies / aids carriers etc having children than them.