[6.1] Affliction Warlock Guide

[ziir]

How come the OP recommends mastery enchants and gems? I understand mastery is the best for destro and also very good for affliction so it makes sense to enchant mastery for playing both specs, but I was "lucky" enough to get multiple weapons in HFC so that I'm using two different staves (I think it's the one from Xhul for destro, and the one from Gorefiend for affliction--might have them backwards I dunno) for each spec. I also have some pieces that I banked when I was only play destro, but now I'm using in my aff set. Do I still enchant and gem for mastery on those pieces?

[Turturin the Warlock]

How come the OP recommends mastery enchants and gems? I understand mastery is the best for destro and also very good for affliction so it makes sense to enchant mastery for playing both specs, but I was "lucky" enough to get multiple weapons in HFC so that I'm using two different staves (I think it's the one from Xhul for destro, and the one from Gorefiend for affliction--might have them backwards I dunno) for each spec. I also have some pieces that I banked when I was only play destro, but now I'm using in my aff set. Do I still enchant and gem for mastery on those pieces?

the difference between haste and mastery on single target is very small. the difference on multi-target in favor of mastery over haste is larger and more significant.

If ultraxion or butcher were a thing, you'd go haste. Since there's no fight like that this tier, you'll probably find most will just stick with mastery for reasons noted.

[ziir]

That sounds reasonable, thanks.

[Cyberthug32]

If you're good enough at affliction, you can almost play it now through out the whole zone. Even though Destro has its benefits, like on HFA for aoe and such.

[Darkheart]

the difference between haste and mastery on single target is very small. the difference on multi-target in favor of mastery over haste is larger and more significant.

If ultraxion or butcher were a thing, you'd go haste. Since there's no fight like that this tier, you'll probably find most will just stick with mastery for reasons noted.

No longer true, most likely. I'm waiting till Gahddo finalizes the simcraft stat weights, but from what I heard from people using the nightly sim builds, haste is better than mastery even in multi target.

[uhhwateva]

Gahddo on Twitter told me essentially that Mastery wasn't about multi-dotting as many had believed but it was more about the burst of the ramped up DoT ticks due to Mastery. Haste is actually better now for multi-dotting. Mastery is purely for target-swapping and burst and is only valued higher and gains value if the targets lifetime is shorter. More sustained lifetime = more DoT ticks due to Haste

You don't have to take my word for it, he's still ironing out some oversights in his sims, he'll fix them and make them available in his pastebin soon enough.

[Cyberthug32]

Gahddo on Twitter told me essentially that Mastery wasn't about multi-dotting as many had believed but it was more about the burst of the ramped up DoT ticks due to Mastery. Haste is actually better now for multi-dotting. Mastery is purely for target-swapping and burst and is only valued higher and gains value if the targets lifetime is shorter. More sustained lifetime = more DoT ticks due to Haste

You don't have to take my word for it, he's still ironing out some oversights in his sims, he'll fix them and make them available in his pastebin soon enough.

If you are believing on what sim's are telling you 100%, then you're doing it all wrong.

[Turturin the Warlock]

If you are believing on what sim's are telling you 100%, then you're doing it all wrong.

Right. Nothings changed about multi dotting, at all. There's no need to wait for new sims, and there was never any reason to put full stock into multi target simulations anyway...it models situations that generally don't exist.

[Darkheart]

Right. Nothings changed about multi dotting, at all. There's no need to wait for new sims, and there was never any reason to put full stock into multi target simulations anyway...it models situations that generally don't exist.

Well, why not take a real example. Let's assume that I am playing affliction on Mannoroth and focusing only on Infernals and Boss (but not imps), in that case would mastery or haste be more effective after affliction's buff against both boss and infernal combined? According to sims, it's still haste. Note here that infernals are medium lived, not short lived adds.

[gahddo]

Right. Nothings changed about multi dotting, at all. There's no need to wait for new sims, and there was never any reason to put full stock into multi target simulations anyway...it models situations that generally don't exist.

Changed since when?...

Considering the list of changes since WoD launch:

- GoSac 25% up from 20%
- Every DoT buffed by 12%
- 25% haunt buff
- Haunt debuff 35% up from 30%
- 50% drain soul buff
- drain soul dot ticks 50% up from 40%
- haste from 100:1% to 90:1%

I'd say a pretty large amount has changed relating to multi-dotting. To say that nothing has changed with stat weights is fucking stupid.

And can we please move past the 'sims don't model anything that ever happens in reality and are therefore useless' bullshit. That was a shitty excuse three years ago and it still is.

[Darkheart]

Thanks Gahddo. This is essentially a confirmation that haste is better at multi dotting than mastery, at least on medium lived adds and above.

[Cyberthug32]

I still stand by it, Sim's do not 100% confirm what you should do in raid, or go full haste or full mastery

[Darkheart]

If you're good enough at affliction, you can almost play it now through out the whole zone. Even though Destro has its benefits, like on HFA for aoe and such.

I still stand by it, Sim's do not 100% confirm what you should do in raid, or go full haste or full mastery

Well, by quoting your two posts above, can you please explain from your point of view, how to utilise the potential of affliction on mannoroth and archimonde heroic? Like what are the targets to focus, how to maximise DPS on these targets, and finally what stats that you recommend for affliction on those two encounters?

I really want to listen to your opinion because we're going to progress on these bosses this week and I am contemplating playing affliction. Then I can find out if it practically works out.

[striderZA]

I still stand by it, Sim's do not 100% confirm what you should do in raid, or go full haste or full mastery

Have to agree here. Sims can only model an encounter with limited accuracy, and the extent to which it can do this is differs for each fight. I think people base far too many decisions on simulated results, and while it can be a good tool to use, it's not the be-all and end-all of figuring out what works the best.

[Jaman]

Have to agree here. Sims can only model an encounter with limited accuracy, and the extent to which it can do this is differs for each fight. I think people base far too many decisions on simulated results, and while it can be a good tool to use, it's not the be-all and end-all of figuring out what works the best.

I doubt Gaddho would say that Sims are the "be-all and end-all of figuring out hat works the best". But that also doesn't mean sims are useless - they're a tool that can be helpful and is part of how we can analyze things.

[Duckz0rs]

I still stand by it, Sim's do not 100% confirm what you should do in raid, or go full haste or full mastery

Sounds more like you're misinterpreting the purpose of sims. They're not meant to be a 100% certain confirmation of what you should do, that's why they're called Simulations.
It's meant to give you a good starting base before you've done an encounter several times, or tested gear/talent setups several times. It gives you several things to work with while planning out your encounters, gear etc rather than just making assumptions. Once you've done the encounter or tested several times you know with 100% certainty what your best options are (given your math is good) based on your own logs.

Such a black-and-white thought process as you have regarding to sims can be pretty damning. Just because it's not 100% foolproof doesn't make it useless by default.

[Turturin the Warlock]

Changed since when?...

Considering the list of changes since WoD launch:

- GoSac 25% up from 20%
- Every DoT buffed by 12%
- 25% haunt buff
- Haunt debuff 35% up from 30%
- 50% drain soul buff
- drain soul dot ticks 50% up from 40%
- haste from 100:1% to 90:1%

I'd say a pretty large amount has changed relating to multi-dotting. To say that nothing has changed with stat weights is fucking stupid.

And can we please move past the 'sims don't model anything that ever happens in reality and are therefore useless' bullshit. That was a shitty excuse three years ago and it still is.

Nice strawman. Not constructive though.

[striderZA]

I doubt Gaddho would say that Sims are the "be-all and end-all of figuring out hat works the best". But that also doesn't mean sims are useless - they're a tool that can be helpful and is part of how we can analyze things.

I wasn't referring to gahddo in particular when I said that. Not that it matters though, since the point I'm trying to make is the same: sims cannot replace real-world experimentation because they are not able to model every single encounter and situation that you're faced with. And no, that doesn't mean that sims are complete garbage.

[Amnesia101]

Nice strawman. Not constructive though.

And that one liner is? Oh and btw Fel Lord is calling. Several times in the past Blizzard has made significant changes to our class that changed stat weights, thresholds (when they exited) etc. Simcraft is has helped to get a baseline understanding of the behavior of these stats in different scenarios.
And since when is suddenly everyone a logician? Suddenly you're all expert on fallacies and arguments? 1 line argument is a winner.

[Cyberthug32]

Sounds more like you're misinterpreting the purpose of sims. They're not meant to be a 100% certain confirmation of what you should do, that's why they're called Simulations.
It's meant to give you a good starting base before you've done an encounter several times, or tested gear/talent setups several times. It gives you several things to work with while planning out your encounters, gear etc rather than just making assumptions. Once you've done the encounter or tested several times you know with 100% certainty what your best options are (given your math is good) based on your own logs.

Such a black-and-white thought process as you have regarding to sims can be pretty damning. Just because it's not 100% foolproof doesn't make it useless by default.

Duckz0rs, I agree, but if you read what some people are doing is XX person sims and they're saying this, so that must be 100% accurate. I've been playing this game since Vanilla, I know Turturin been around for a long time as well.

For instance Sims say single target at 720 item level affliction you should be doing 71,522. That isn't accurate, when on Fel lord i consider probably the only single target fight in the game. 712 Item level and I ended up being 68,598.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Simcraft also says we should gem and enchant full haste, which I disagree with. You can't sit here and tell me when I gain 7 more item levels on single target i'm only going gain that little of dps.

All my parses aren't amazing, I'll admit but it also depends on raid comp, and your job on the fights. Also taking someone's opinion when they do not even post their own parses public I find it hard to believe they are doing what they are trying to say.

As for mastery, I wouldn't touch haste period, put the class trinket on and see what haste will do to your spells and recasting dots so often it's annoying.

Mannoroth I would be full mastery, I swapped my dots to infernals or hard casted them, depends how many shards I have currently.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Again, public logs to show what i'm doing.

I don't really understand why guilds keep their logs private.