[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[stewiefied]

There was like a 5 page discussion on mana tea removal 80 pages back or so. Some people like it some people don't. Imo it's a mechanic that can be abused on certain fights and it seems like blizzard is struggling to tune our mana around that.

[Supliftz]

Fistweaving doesn't need to have excess to infinite mana for it to be viable on it's own. If Crane Stance' entire purpose is for the monk to disregard spirit, then that's pretty shit design in all honesty. Fistweaving is honestly more than viable on it's own right now if they removed mana tea generation from Crane. With it removed, they could add basically anything (from a dps cd, to another rotation button, more dps/hps, etc). I just heavily dislike how monk plays anytime you can actively fistweave to 20 stacks of mana tea and spam rjw. You completely ignore one something which is completely fundamental to a healer, your mana management. You basically just go into a max hps rotation and pretend your blue bar doesn't exist.

On the other hand, if you just pure serpent (which happens a lot now in BrF). Mana tea is basically Elemental Blast. Something you press every once in a while to make sure you don't oom. Wow, so interesting! That's probably why restoration shamans enjoy elemental blast.

Btw you could still make all the active choices with your regen without mana tea, (Hint Crane Stance), and your downtime would feel more engaging. Instead of just standing in a corner thinking to yourself "wow look at all the fun I'm having channeling a spell that does no damage and healing!"

[Deleted]

There was like a 5 page discussion on mana tea removal 80 pages back or so. Some people like it some people don't. Imo it's a mechanic that can be abused on certain fights and it seems like blizzard is struggling to tune our mana around that.

Ah my bad. Wasn't even trying to start a conversation about it just kinda went that way. Also I sometimes don't look on mmo champ for a few days. See pages, pages & pages of new comments and just say "nope!" and read the last 2. Musta missed it

[Sonrisa]

I'm not entirely against the mechanic, you are not doing damage or healing but you are enabling your self to do them in the future by channeling. What just feels plain bad and wrong since 6.1 is the time to mana ratio. It was pretty much on the border line before but the nerfs made it go from tolerable to bad (for anyone without super high spirit at least). I'm sure I'm not the only one that's found himself before 6.1 at 20 stacks with low but not totally depleted on mana wanting to channel but you just don't have the time to do so because the raid needs healing. Now it just feels like shit because you need to channel for far longer to get significant mana back.

[Deleted]

Fistweaving doesn't need to have excess to infinite mana for it to be viable on it's own. If Crane Stance' entire purpose is for the monk to disregard spirit, then that's pretty shit design in all honesty. Fistweaving is honestly more than viable on it's own right now if they removed mana tea generation from Crane. With it removed, they could add basically anything (from a dps cd, to another rotation button, more dps/hps, etc). I just heavily dislike how monk plays anytime you can actively fistweave to 20 stacks of mana tea and spam rjw. You completely ignore one something which is completely fundamental to a healer, your mana management. You basically just go into a max hps rotation and pretend your blue bar doesn't exist.

On the other hand, if you just pure serpent (which happens a lot now in BrF). Mana tea is basically Elemental Blast. Something you press every once in a while to make sure you don't oom. Wow, so interesting! That's probably why restoration shamans enjoy elemental blast.

Btw you could still make all the active choices with your regen without mana tea, (Hint Crane Stance), and your downtime would feel more engaging. Instead of just standing in a corner thinking to yourself "wow look at all the fun I'm having channeling a spell that does no damage and healing!"

Well in serpent it punishes you on a 2nd front for poor chi management. That is your mana suffers as well as your throughput. If it were removed chi would become a lot more 2 dimensional and the spec would lose one of its basic skill barriers. While on its own it's not significant a lot of small things like this come together to form depth in a class.
If you compare what we have vs pallies/discs they are just fucking vomit in comparison. Mistweaver has more rewarding gameplay & I guess people are going to disagree whether mana tea is a part of that or not.

In my opinion it most certainly is. If it were removed MW would still have rewarding gameplay just not as good in my opinion.


And honestly I'm not even ashamed. Going full retard with RJW for an entire phase is like my favourite thing ever

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Maybe my screen name gives it away I dno. And yes I do spin around in my chair in real life when I press it. Problem?

[Spotnick]

Suplift is right though.. mana tea doesn't enhance the game play AT ALL. I still believe fistweaving should be our way to regen, not mana tea, you should get mana back instead of mana tea stacks when you are in crane stance.

Granted this is a blast from the past from pre-MOP holy paladins, but still.

[Deleted]

Maybe. But then since your regen would be scaled to doing some fistweaving... You'd be strained on fights where you couldn't fistweave. They'd need to keep spells more expensive to balance that so I can't see that ever being balanced.

I just don't see the arguement that it adds no depth vs static spirit that literally makes no sense. Drinking it, I hate.

Symmetry inside the Mana, Chi, Mana tea recycling plant I really don't mind.


As I said. Avoiding bottlenecks in that process is a basic skill barrier for monk and removing it just makes us more like every other healer. If I don't have to stand drinking I'm perfectly cool with it

[Totaltotemic]

It seems that the only argument that Mana Tea adds anything to gameplay is when it's used to cheese Crane Stance. The problem with that is that Blizzard has been pretty obvious with their dislike of using anything in any relation to doing damage as a MW to benefit healing. Is generating Mana Tea in Crane something that is even going to exist by the time the expansion is over? Frankly, I was surprised they didn't disable Tea generation in Crane entirely in 6.1, maybe they just didn't realize that the walled garden of Crane Stance didn't have high enough walls to stop it from spilling over into Serpent?

I agree that the Crane cheesing thing is interesting and a pretty hidden element of skill, but I'm not sure it's actually going to last in the game for very long before the hounds of the design team rip it out. I don't really know what to make of the fact that it's still here since Crane Stance is like some kind of developer black hole that they shoved things into and then never, ever talk about it and unceremoniously nerf/buff it whenever they nerf/buff WW without a care in the world.

[Deleted]

Well. It is pretty unbalanced on some fights. But the addition of cranes zeal, the rework of vital mists, expel harm being castable in crane & the 2 set all seem to point to the fact that it's intentional design that it be mana positive. But I mean, at what point in the specs existence have they ever had any idea what they wanted.

50% increase to jab cost might tone it down short term but eventually gear will catch up. Would need a mechanical rework to the above mechanics to stop the cheese at its core

But whatever. I hope they continue in their confused state so I can keep bankin dat mana tea & spinning in my chair

[Kuponoodles]

I just want to say as a person who's not good at/hates math - thank you guys for picking away at this stuff. Also, thank you for sticking with this spec.

I'm one of those players who's kinda stuck in this awkward "casual-core" space. I run with people who either take themselves too seriously, in the wrong ways or not serious enough in the right ways. I was laughed at when I pointed out that monks of all specs are considered melee when it comes to boss mechanics. And that's the tip of the iceberg. I find myself attempting education of the hidden perks and just plain nifty things about MW, but I'm pretty sure I just come across as either annoying or boring.
In short, if it wasn't for places like this - forums and places of mistweaver community, I think I would have rage quit long ago.

[Vasciras]

I just want to say as a person who's not good at/hates math - thank you guys for picking away at this stuff. Also, thank you for sticking with this spec.

I'm one of those players who's kinda stuck in this awkward "casual-core" space. I run with people who either take themselves too seriously, in the wrong ways or not serious enough in the right ways. I was laughed at when I pointed out that monks of all specs are considered melee when it comes to boss mechanics. And that's the tip of the iceberg. I find myself attempting education of the hidden perks and just plain nifty things about MW, but I'm pretty sure I just come across as either annoying or boring.
In short, if it wasn't for places like this - forums and places of mistweaver community, I think I would have rage quit long ago.

People are very unaware that mistweaver counts as a melee healer, I also had to explain this to my guild leader in detail some time ago. I still get the occasional shout "get out of melee!" on Flamebender.

This community is great, and probably the best healer community out of all of them. Having the biggest healer thread on MMO-C while being the most underrepresented healer is pretty nifty.

[Geodew]

game aesthetics don't work like that, i'm pretty sure he means he channels for longer periods of time on average

Yeah just saying it's completely psychological, you don't actually spend any more time channeling than you did

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Focus on the basics of healing first you can heal EVERY encounter without fistweaving. Fistweaving is not a gain in HPS, it's a decent/strong utility you have that on SOME fights can ALSO do good healing.



edit: for Heroic Blackhand we don't send a healer up ;O

FWing is a healing gain because it's ridiculously mana efficient. I doubt you could have 100% rjw uptime on final phase of blast furnace on progression without using Crane

[Deleted]

Yeah just saying it's completely psychological, you don't actually spend any more time channeling than you did

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FWing is a healing gain because it's ridiculously mana efficient. I doubt you could have 100% rjw uptime on final phase of blast furnace on progression without using Crane

On quite a few mythic fights you do spend extra time channeling mana tea, or i do at least. Thogar, kromog, maidens it's happening to me on. Fights where i was capping mana tea and sitting at 90% mana, previously i'd just drink 2 stacks odd and carry on gaining stacks, now to hover at that 95% point it requires longer drinking. Thogar was by far the worst in terms of how the nerf felt

[Geodew]

Suplift is right though.. mana tea doesn't enhance the game play AT ALL. I still believe fistweaving should be our way to regen, not mana tea, you should get mana back instead of mana tea stacks when you are in crane stance.

Granted this is a blast from the past from pre-MOP holy paladins, but still.

I said this last time we were on this topic but
(1) you are often at full or almost full mana when using Crane, Mana Tea lets you go above 160k while FWing
(2) the rjw spam issue is because crane is too efficient, not because of the mana tea mechanic itself
(3) I personally like having something productive to do in downtime because serpent cjl is wet noodle mode

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On quite a few mythic fights you do spend extra time channeling mana tea, or i do at least. Thogar, kromog, maidens it's happening to me on. Fights where i was capping mana tea and sitting at 90% mana, previously i'd just drink 2 stacks odd and carry on gaining stacks, now to hover at that 95% point it requires longer drinking. Thogar was by far the worst in terms of how the nerf felt

Like I said, only if you were mana capped in which case it barely matters

[Buildapanda]

Spin and win makes an excellent point about manage mana tea and skill cap, if mana tea was removed and the need to fw was removed we'd simply become a point and healbot healer, I like feeling like a special snowflake

[Supliftz]

Spin and win makes an excellent point about manage mana tea and skill cap, if mana tea was removed and the need to fw was removed we'd simply become a point and healbot healer, I like feeling like a special snowflake

Mana tea shouldn't be the reason you go into Crane. The reason you go into crane is to do dps. That's the entire point of crane stance. Not to abuse it for infinite mana on fights that have any extended downtime.

Honestly just having the two stances alone makes monks "special snowflakes". This on top of the rem uplift mechanic, and chi (which is different to HoPo because hopo fucking sucks now).

[Totaltotemic]

For what it's worth, we tried to use the exact same argument to keep the maintenance buffs that enabled constantly AAing a boss for some extra healing way back in 5.0 and 5.1. It wasn't even a huge difference, but it was something that people who were skilled enough and knowledgeable enough to pull off could use to get some extra healing over doing everything the standard way. It was still eventually destroyed to preserve the integrity of the choice to either do damage or do healing and never let the two mingle (despite Disc Priests continuing to do that for the entire expansion and still to this day...).

I'm not saying that I don't like the idea of cheesing Crane for extra Mana Tea to abuse every mechanic the spec has for every bit of performance you can get, but I know from the past that Blizzard doesn't like it and this situation really isn't any different. Every time fistweaving has impacted normal healing in a positive way, they've struck it down in the next major patch so hard that it never returns in the same form again. It's just that for some odd reason they're ignoring their old nemesis that has caused so many problems in the past and putting the blame for awkward mana balancing on Mana Tea rather than the obvious culprit of people once again using fistweaving to boost healing.

They've always been quick to force their vision of the Mistweaver that is either a point and click channeling healbot or chooses to basically be a ghetto Windwalker that does a little healing, it's just odd that they've seemingly forgot that every time MW mana has been weird since 5.1 it's been because of fistweaving in one form or another.

[Buildapanda]

Mana tea shouldn't be the reason you go into Crane. The reason you go into crane is to do dps. That's the entire point of crane stance. Not to abuse it for infinite mana on fights that have any extended downtime.

Honestly just having the two stances alone makes monks "special snowflakes". This on top of the rem uplift mechanic, and chi (which is different to HoPo because hopo fucking sucks now).

I was just repeating what One of you "experts" on the fb podcast said that they would still use crane stance to get mana tea even if crane stance did no damage but generated mana tea stacks, I'm just extrapolating that and wondering what use crane stance has when mana tea disappears?

[Deleted]

Yeah just saying it's completely psychological, you don't actually spend any more time channeling than you did

It's not, you have to spend more time to get the same amount of mana back. This means pauses in mechanics will not provide the same amount of mana. Overall time spent may be the same, but when and where you spend the time is arguably more important than the net amount of tea you're drinking.

[Kuruption]

I was just repeating what One of you "experts" on the fb podcast said that they would still use crane stance to get mana tea even if crane stance did no damage but generated mana tea stacks, I'm just extrapolating that and wondering what use crane stance has when mana tea disappears?

More damage on bosses?