[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[Buildapanda]

Burst heal with RJW, fistweave when damage stops, then back to RJW and channel tea while spinning

a lot of these fights have spread mechanics with damage so you really can't even rjw

[Volibear]

a lot of these fights have spread mechanics with damage so you really can't even rjw

Can't even RJW melee?

[Supliftz]

Can't even RJW melee?

depends on how many melee you bring, ranged have to loosely stack. Monks are still fine these encounters because of 2-4pc and crane stance.

[Geodew]

TLDR Tiger Strikes uptime in Crane with Fang of the Earth (1.6s swing speed) and +19.665% Haste is 46.757% (Patch 6.2).

Forgot to say the TLDR was for Patch 6.2. I edited it now.

6.1 uptime depends on your multistrike, and p changes from 6.2; not just 0.1 anymore. With a multistrike chance of m (in [0, 1]):
p = 0.1 + m + m - 0.1*m - 0.1*m - m*m + 0.1*m*m = 0.1 + 1.8*m - 0.9*m^2
>Let r := min(m+0.25, 1.0); i.e. your multistrike + 25% capped at 100%, so usually just r=m+0.25
=> q = 0.1 + 1.8*r - 0.9*r^2

And I don't have more time tonight but if no one else does it I can plug that into the formula later

Edit: Forgot to apply 10% chance to the multistrikes as well (above is 100% lol), will fix it after work or saturday

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Then you run into the problem of the new trinkets not being worthwhile for MW (outside of the crit one).

Yeah, I know. Just saying it's probably intentionally low because they didn't want Spirit to get too high. I wasn't saying if it was a good idea or not. Probably not, considering how strong static spirit is for us and how much less Spirit they have.

Guess we'll have to see how good the funkier trinkets are once I can do the math.

[Saiyoran]

The leech trinket seems pretty useful if I'm understanding it correctly. It won't help you much on the meters, but it should be very powerful.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124234/b...nket-4&bonus=0

I'm assuming it means it gives you leech rating, so if you effectively heal someone for 30k with an uplift, they would get ~300 leech rating (with the mythic version), which is around 4.3% leech. That's pretty amazing considering it will scale with DPS gear / fight times / the fact that it will probably be on 10+ people constantly.

Can anyone explain exactly how this trinket works? Obviously you're healing someone more than once every 10 seconds, does that leech rating roll over, does it get replaced by a higher heal only, is it only the most recent heal that determines the 10 second buff? If the leech buff gets replaced by the next RM tick after uplift that would be pretty bad wouldn't it, since you'd go from that ~4% leech to <1% leech.

[Pinch]

Can anyone explain exactly how this trinket works? Obviously you're healing someone more than once every 10 seconds, does that leech rating roll over, does it get replaced by a higher heal only, is it only the most recent heal that determines the 10 second buff? If the leech buff gets replaced by the next RM tick after uplift that would be pretty bad wouldn't it, since you'd go from that ~4% leech to <1% leech.

I can't explain how it works since I can't test it, but it seems plausible to make an educated guess based on current systems.

I imagine it will work similar to Resolve, in that it will give you leech rating based on the amount of effective healing you took from the player with the trinket in the last 10 seconds. The value would update every second, losing leech from the heals 10 seconds ago, and gaining leech based on the healing you did since the last update. So if you heal someone for ~200k in 10 seconds through various abilities, they should have ~2000 leech rating at the 10th second.

If the trinket didn't work like this, it wouldn't be very good. However, if it does work like that, it will probably be borderline overpowered if you run multiple healers with it on a high raid damage fight.

[Deleted]

For fistweaving I read that haste is very good stat but tbh wouldnt spirit still be better there as well?
Hear me out, Crackling Jade Lightning does cost about 12k more mana then 4 jabs but does pretty much the same damage but in just a global cooldown. That would mean our chi abilities would actually hit harder and we would get more of them in the same time. Just as spirit, haste doesnt make them hit harder afterall.

[Deleted]

For fistweaving I read that haste is very good stat but tbh wouldnt spirit still be better there as well?
Hear me out, Crackling Jade Lightning does cost about 12k more mana then 4 jabs but does pretty much the same damage but in just a global cooldown. That would mean our chi abilities would actually hit harder and we would get more of them in the same time. Just as spirit, haste doesnt make them hit harder afterall.

Either haste or spirit both just result in more blackout kicks if you really think about it. I prefer the idea of haste, since it makes fistweaving feel less aids.

[Deleted]

Either haste or spirit both just result in more blackout kicks if you really think about it. I prefer the idea of haste, since it makes fistweaving feel less aids.

Blackoutkicks still do more dps/eminence then Jab. Also mixed feelings about haste when switching to serpent stance again will probly happend.

[Geodew]

Well, Multistrike is potentially more DPS than Haste for Pool of Mists, but anyway, it's already known that Spirit provides a nontrivial DPS gain for Crane Stance. The question is just how much. Most people were guessing that Spirit wouldn't be as strong as the other stats because at +12k mana, you'd eat through the mana gains from Spirit pretty quickly. In addition, past a certain level of Spirit, casting more CJL also means delaying Expel Harm, since you can only cast CJL at 0 Chi. There's no way to really know for sure without just doing the math, though.

I think @jordantoine may actually be working on it. That was the whole point of figuring out Tiger Strikes uptime, since it would mean additional diminishing returns on multistrike, which could mean that Haste is better than MS for PoM and probably not great for CE at all.

[Deleted]

Expel harm doesnt really do much for damage and for healing only useful if its actually heals anything. Personally use expel harm mostly for cheap chi if it isnt used for selfheal. Expel harm losses alot of value when spirit gets higher tho.

[Deleted]

Blackoutkicks still do more dps/eminence then Jab. Also mixed feelings about haste when switching to serpent stance again will probly happend.

Either way Multi is king & I think the difference between haste or spirit comes down to a small gain. Most of your spirit comes from trinkets though. So stacking some spirit usually results in an int loss more than anything. So for that reason I'd never go spirit while fistweaving


You'd also need to consider things like do Xuen's auto attacks scale to haste (I have no idea). Because if they do thats another +1 to the haste point of view

[Geodew]

Expel harm doesnt really do much for damage and for healing only useful if its actually heals anything. Personally use expel harm mostly for cheap chi if it isnt used for selfheal. Expel harm losses alot of value when spirit gets higher tho.

Well, yeah, the point is cheap chi. Same reason it's used in Serpent. Still lowers the value of Spirit because you need even more mana to make up for fewer EH casts.

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You'd also need to consider things like do Xuen's auto attacks scale to haste (I have no idea). Because if they do thats another +1 to the haste point of view

I think so. I'll have to ask Reglitch if he remembers...

[Evandril]

Many cutting-edge Mythic kills and now speed kills of BRF utilize(d) Mistweaver damage. I feel the pursuit of those two types of kills are very similar, please correct me if I'm wrong! I do not know as much on the topic as I would like, so I'm seeking education.

a) Are there different stat priorities if you are looking to maximize your damage as a Mistweaver?

b) If there is a different priority, and you're using Geodew's stat weights, is there a quantifiable amount of DPS you would lose from the maximum potential of proper stat itemization? Let's say you could do 80%, for example, of properly itemized DPS.

c) My thoughts are that Mistweavers are very flexible in their talent choices affecting the balance of damage to healing they can do. Xuen vs Rushing Jade Winds, and Chi Explosion vs Pool of Mists. Xuen and Pool of Mists is highest damage I believe, does that make it lowest healing? Same with Rushing Jade Winds and Pool of Mists having the highest healing potential, does that make it the lowest damage? What of Xuen & Chi Explosion, and Rushing Jade Winds with Chi Explosion.

I'm trying to get an idea of how each talent set-up ranks in terms of damage and healing. I also am seeking to learn what definite situations you would take those combinations, and what you should be looking to achieve with them.

[Deleted]

Many cutting-edge Mythic kills and now speed kills of BRF utilize(d) Mistweaver damage. I feel the pursuit of those two types of kills are very similar, please correct me if I'm wrong! I do not know as much on the topic as I would like, so I'm seeking education.

a) Are there different stat priorities if you are looking to maximize your damage as a Mistweaver?

b) If there is a different priority, and you're using Geodew's stat weights, is there a quantifiable amount of DPS you would lose from the maximum potential of proper stat itemization? Let's say you could do 80%, for example, of properly itemized DPS.

c) My thoughts are that Mistweavers are very flexible in their talent choices affecting the balance of damage to healing they can do. Xuen vs Rushing Jade Winds, and Chi Explosion vs Pool of Mists. Xuen and Pool of Mists is highest damage I believe, does that make it lowest healing? Same with Rushing Jade Winds and Pool of Mists having the highest healing potential, does that make it the lowest damage? What of Xuen & Chi Explosion, and Rushing Jade Winds with Chi Explosion.

I'm trying to get an idea of how each talent set-up ranks in terms of damage and healing. I also am seeking to learn what definite situations you would take those combinations, and what you should be looking to achieve with them.

For fistweaving you basically want to drop a lot of spirit if it's going to let you use int trinkets. I don't think Geodew has number crunched fistweaving completely yet (slack), since you nearly always gear towards healing. But I think Multi > Haste would be about right. I'm not sure how vers vs crit works out. Considering the damage reduction from vers is useless but the mana gain from crit is also useless I'm not sure what would be 3rd but my guess would be crit.


Basically for staying 100% crane and going big dick on damage

Single target - Xuen / PoM
2-3 target cleave - Xuen PoM
Hectic add cleave - Chi Torpedo / PoM /Celerity

As for chi wave vs chi burst I'm not really sure. I think as gear gets better and RSK becomes available nearly all the time chi burst becomes better. As downtime gets lower it makes sense to have the harder hitting ability with the longer cooldown as a filler. Rather than the wet noodle of chi wave. I'd say Burst for aoe always (obviously) and for single target that it probably depends on gear & hwo much downtime aka. BoK spamming you end up doing.

For best healing in Crane Stance only

ChiEx. Then the 90 talent depends largely on the fight. I'd say Chi Torpedo as default 90% of the time though.
Never really liked this even when it was stronger, it lacks burst. You can CJL but it's way worse value for burst than RJW in serpent gives.
It just feels like when damage is low I could be doing more dps in PoM, and when damage is high I feel like I'm straining other healers mana by having such poor burst.


For best healing

PoM / RJW (or torpedo/celerity with low spirit).
The damage loss from not speccing xuen on Gruul is only 10%. The highest damage loss with stance dancing comes from having healing trinkets on in my opinion. The loss from Xuen isn't that great

I've only killed 7 but I pretty much stuck with PoM /RJW on every boss and adopted a hybrid approach to most bosses. Will use PoM / Xuen on twins but furnace and BH just look like more Uplift/RJW spam to me.

Imo the boss most open to talent choice on prog is probably Darmac. I don't think any approach is really "wrong there" but ultimately I ended up going PoM / RJW so that I had the burst for the tantrums.

You might find this useful
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...pec=Mistweaver
I've filtered it to heroic since that's where most monks yolo fistweave. Obviously for healing talents you will want to look @ mythic healing for MW. Or speed ranks I guess for people not padding their healing.

[Deleted]

Many cutting-edge Mythic kills and now speed kills of BRF utilize(d) Mistweaver damage. I feel the pursuit of those two types of kills are very similar, please correct me if I'm wrong! I do not know as much on the topic as I would like, so I'm seeking education.

a) Are there different stat priorities if you are looking to maximize your damage as a Mistweaver?

b) If there is a different priority, and you're using Geodew's stat weights, is there a quantifiable amount of DPS you would lose from the maximum potential of proper stat itemization? Let's say you could do 80%, for example, of properly itemized DPS.

c) My thoughts are that Mistweavers are very flexible in their talent choices affecting the balance of damage to healing they can do. Xuen vs Rushing Jade Winds, and Chi Explosion vs Pool of Mists. Xuen and Pool of Mists is highest damage I believe, does that make it lowest healing? Same with Rushing Jade Winds and Pool of Mists having the highest healing potential, does that make it the lowest damage? What of Xuen & Chi Explosion, and Rushing Jade Winds with Chi Explosion.

I'm trying to get an idea of how each talent set-up ranks in terms of damage and healing. I also am seeking to learn what definite situations you would take those combinations, and what you should be looking to achieve with them.

All stats but mastery will increase the damage you do as fistweaving with intel/sp and multistrike being the strongest, multistrike gets a bit less value when ChiX.

Kinda have to think of each tier alone. Pool of mist highest cranestance damage and highest serpent stance healing. ChiX highest cranestance healing. Xuen does the most damage/healing in crane and RJW the most healing serpent. With tornado being a good alternative with low spirit for either stance.

Lot of the speed skills I have seen been logged have been using lower amount of healing, like 3 healer Kromog. The mount of healing you can put out with 2x spirit trinkets on that fight is insane, 80-90k hps with 400k+ hps bursts. Alot of times when progressing the extra couple of million damage a mistweaver adds helps alot, on fight like for example Darmac Touch of death alone 5 times thats 1.5+ million damage if that was in crancestance its 1.5million healing as well.

[Geodew]

Crane weights aren't high on the priority list. Unfortunately there are several more useful things I should do first, so I hope Jordan gets around to it.

[Deleted]

Crane weights aren't high on the priority list. Unfortunately there are several more useful things I should do first, so I hope Jordan gets around to it.

What do we even pay you for.

[Supliftz]

The only way you can compare chi wave/zen sphere to chi burst, is if you live in a world where you need to sit in crane 100% of the time, on a ST fight w/ zero cleave or AoE damage. If this is the case zen sphere is a slight dps increase if your multistrike isn't high to sustain RSK spam.

In reality you're going to take chi burst 99% of the time. It's not even worth thinking about Zen Sphere/Chi Wave.

Also if Expel is fully effective it's better than Jab, due to it doing more damage/healing.

[Deleted]

Many cutting-edge Mythic kills and now speed kills of BRF utilize(d) Mistweaver damage. I feel the pursuit of those two types of kills are very similar, please correct me if I'm wrong! I do not know as much on the topic as I would like, so I'm seeking education.

a) Are there different stat priorities if you are looking to maximize your damage as a Mistweaver?

b) If there is a different priority, and you're using Geodew's stat weights, is there a quantifiable amount of DPS you would lose from the maximum potential of proper stat itemization? Let's say you could do 80%, for example, of properly itemized DPS.

c) My thoughts are that Mistweavers are very flexible in their talent choices affecting the balance of damage to healing they can do. Xuen vs Rushing Jade Winds, and Chi Explosion vs Pool of Mists. Xuen and Pool of Mists is highest damage I believe, does that make it lowest healing? Same with Rushing Jade Winds and Pool of Mists having the highest healing potential, does that make it the lowest damage? What of Xuen & Chi Explosion, and Rushing Jade Winds with Chi Explosion.

I'm trying to get an idea of how each talent set-up ranks in terms of damage and healing. I also am seeking to learn what definite situations you would take those combinations, and what you should be looking to achieve with them.

If you're aiming to kill a boss fast PoM/Xuen is standard, taking chi torpedo on darmac for example is a waste, those adds die to entirely passive cleave and you lose single target dps by doing it, you'll do much higher on the dps meters, but if your goal is to kill the boss fast it's far better to let a class that gains single target from having more adds kill them. PoM/RJW isn't much lower damage and increases the healing you can do in serpent by a lot, kromog is great for that, the first 2 breaths are pretty much entirely covered by a disc + paladin with wings so you can crane them, but after that you really do want to have RJW for the healing, but most bosses you can do just fine with using spinning crane and taking xuen for the damage. There is no fight currently where you should be taking chi explosion for crane.

Most fights are fairly difficult to drop down to 3 healers with you in crane the entire time, so you want to get used to looking at the damage profile of a fight and seeing where you'll be best suited to go back to serpent, beastlord for example you can comfortable crane the entire dog, very little outgoing damage, same with the dragon, but the elephant with tramples may be a bit much if you're 3 healing, so pay attention to where your other healers will struggle and go serpent before that, this is where mistweaver shines in my opinion, the parts of the fight with almost no outgoing damage you can let the healers who have far worse damage options than you handle (disc) but when the healing requirement ramps up you have a full mana bar to burn though. Thogar is a excellent fight to practice this on, there is a lot of very low damage downtime, and some huge damage spikes at very predictable points.