[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[Artunias]

Well there is a pretty big fundamental difference in how the two abilities worked.

heroic strike did not interfere with your normal rotation. It was simply a mechanic in place to burn excess rage when needed. Even when it was on next hit. It still didn't interfere with the buttons you needed to hit.

Wild Strike does interfere, it also conflicts with your natural gcd and during bloodlust/heroism this is just magnified.

[Deleted]

Anybody else terrified of the impending FS spam playstyle if our 4-piece doesn't change. I mean I really think it's going to destroy our QoL, and I am really sad that so far Blizzard hasn't seen to give this terrible bonus a hard look. It appears it'll go live... And warrior will become even less fun then it currently is, which is I believe the lowest point since Vanilla. Absolutely troughing at the moment...

Sums it up nicely. If nothing gets changed it's rogue time for me. Looking forward to skipping half the fight mechanics with CoS and not being reliant on 7 fucking layers of RNG.

And let's be honest here ... DPS warrior died when they decided to fuck Heroic Strike in the ass and make us dump rage with shitty Wild Strike that nobody likes.

RIP Warrior 2004-2015

[Artunias]

I have to admit the RNG of the class is really wearing on me. We were missing a rogue last night so I was in for about 2 hours of Blackhand. Defensive stance pretty good by the way, but still feels overly punishing in the rage department.

However, it was so dumb how big my dps swing in phase 1 was sometimes. A few pulls I was one of the top dps in phase 1, some pulls I was one of the worst. Phase 2 kinda fucks melee so it doesn't matter as much at that point. But still, it's just ridiculous how much our dps swings in factors that are 100% out of our control. And it's not like god like rng has us take a dump on everyone. It just matches or slightly exceeds the strongest classes that are far less dependent on RNG.

[Archimtiros]

I honestly dont get why everyone loves HS spam but hates FS spam. Personally i hate both, but WOTLK HS spam is the same crap as FS spam. Its not a fluid rotation its including as many FS/HS's as you possibly can in your rotation while still properly doing mechanics. Stupid.

They played completely differently.

First off, Wild Strike is not spammed, even with Furious Strikes. It is used rotationally as a filler between other, arguably more important, GCDs such as Bloodthirst and Raging Blow. It is at most used twice every ~4s cycle (between Bloodthirst), not including Bloodsurge procs. I wouldn't exactly call that "spamming".

Second, Heroic Strike was used completely separate from the GCD and depending on your level of gear was used anything from constantly to targeted use every CS cycle. The targeted use, 4x/6s phase, was pretty well done in my opinion; it only got out of hand when gear levels got so high that we really were spamming it almost on cooldown; still it pales in comparison to Gladiators Unyielding Strikes build which truly does spam the button 24/7.


The point comes back to the fact that the abilities are used completely differently however, so are not directly comparable. Even at the height of Heroic Strike use during 5.4, if you were simply smacking Heroic Strike every second you got without a care in the world... you were doing it wrong. Instead of trying to press two buttons at once (GCD + HS), a much easier way to do it would be to reconginze the 1.5s CD of Heroic Strike fit perfectly in between the 1.5s GCD; causing you to essentially use Heroic Strike in between GCDs, not in conjunction with. This created a faster playstyle, without a spammy feeling, because you weren't simply pressing one button over and over again.

[Deleted]

I have a question RE sudden death & the internal timer. Does it start once the buff is given or only when it's consumed? Basically, does holding off on pressing the execute proc result in a dps loss. Or has the timer for the next execute proc started as soon as I got the proc.

I was starting to gear up my warrior again (maybe) & what with it being new to WoD I wasn't sure. Was thinking if holding off on it wasn't a dps loss it might be better on movement heavy fights where you get some downtime. Sorry if this has been talked about / answered before.

[Deleted]

I have a question RE sudden death & the internal timer. Does it start once the buff is given or only when it's consumed? Basically, does holding off on pressing the execute proc result in a dps loss. Or has the timer for the next execute proc started as soon as I got the proc.

I was starting to gear up my warrior again (maybe) & what with it being new to WoD I wasn't sure. Was thinking if holding off on it wasn't a dps loss it might be better on movement heavy fights where you get some downtime. Sorry if this has been talked about / answered before.

NEVER hold an Execute proc.

Your idea of holding it off can work though (but there's no situation I can think of where it would be useful in BrF) because it only procs on autos and therefore moving out of melee range makes sure you don't waste any proc.

[Archimtiros]

NEVER hold an Execute proc.

Your idea of holding it off can work though (but there's no situation I can think of where it would be useful in BrF) because it only procs on autos and therefore moving out of melee range makes sure you don't waste any proc.

I very rarely hold it if my immediate GCD is Bloodthirst and I am not Enraged. By immediate I mean you are already in the process of pressing the button.

[Deleted]

I have a question RE sudden death & the internal timer. Does it start once the buff is given or only when it's consumed? Basically, does holding off on pressing the execute proc result in a dps loss. Or has the timer for the next execute proc started as soon as I got the proc.

I was starting to gear up my warrior again (maybe) & what with it being new to WoD I wasn't sure. Was thinking if holding off on it wasn't a dps loss it might be better on movement heavy fights where you get some downtime. Sorry if this has been talked about / answered before.

It does have a chance to proc again, even if you don't use it, you can see it if you're tracking the buff, if you delay it (and it procs again) your buff timer will go from 5 seconds for example back up to 10 seconds, that would mean you wasted an execute proc. It is unlikely to proc immediately back to back, but it does happen. Especially when you have haste buffs active such as hero and/or 4Piece with Reck active, it procs more often.

[Roiids]

They played completely differently.

First off, Wild Strike is not spammed, even with Furious Strikes. It is used rotationally as a filler between other, arguably more important, GCDs such as Bloodthirst and Raging Blow. It is at most used twice every ~4s cycle (between Bloodthirst), not including Bloodsurge procs. I wouldn't exactly call that "spamming".

Second, Heroic Strike was used completely separate from the GCD and depending on your level of gear was used anything from constantly to targeted use every CS cycle. The targeted use, 4x/6s phase, was pretty well done in my opinion; it only got out of hand when gear levels got so high that we really were spamming it almost on cooldown; still it pales in comparison to Gladiators Unyielding Strikes build which truly does spam the button 24/7.


The point comes back to the fact that the abilities are used completely differently however, so are not directly comparable. Even at the height of Heroic Strike use during 5.4, if you were simply smacking Heroic Strike every second you got without a care in the world... you were doing it wrong. Instead of trying to press two buttons at once (GCD + HS), a much easier way to do it would be to reconginze the 1.5s CD of Heroic Strike fit perfectly in between the 1.5s GCD; causing you to essentially use Heroic Strike in between GCDs, not in conjunction with. This created a faster playstyle, without a spammy feeling, because you weren't simply pressing one button over and over again.

I get how they were different but i believe my point was missed. Regardless of GCD's, both abilities are retarded. I like wild strike more than i ever did HS. HS always just felt like shit i had to press because it was more dps and i had too much rage all the time. I was more referring to Naxx/Ulduar iteration of fury where you had that shit Q'ed up almost every GCD because you were rage capped. I get it a lot of ppl like that crap, i just think its a lazy design and your abilities should hit hard enough to where you dont have to spam a filler ability.

The wild strike/bloodsurge cockblock you run into while a different animal, to me still feels like a filler design. And when you dont crit your BT and you are sitting at 50 rage it becomes a rolling the dice scenario whether or not to hit WS and hope your next BT will crit so you have stuff to press or sit there rage starved for a couple seconds with nothing to hit. The RNG gods are so real.

[angelmaz]

They played completely differently.

First off, Wild Strike is not spammed, even with Furious Strikes. It is used rotationally as a filler between other, arguably more important, GCDs such as Bloodthirst and Raging Blow. It is at most used twice every ~4s cycle (between Bloodthirst), not including Bloodsurge procs. I wouldn't exactly call that "spamming".

Second, Heroic Strike was used completely separate from the GCD and depending on your level of gear was used anything from constantly to targeted use every CS cycle. The targeted use, 4x/6s phase, was pretty well done in my opinion; it only got out of hand when gear levels got so high that we really were spamming it almost on cooldown; still it pales in comparison to Gladiators Unyielding Strikes build which truly does spam the button 24/7.


The point comes back to the fact that the abilities are used completely differently however, so are not directly comparable. Even at the height of Heroic Strike use during 5.4, if you were simply smacking Heroic Strike every second you got without a care in the world... you were doing it wrong. Instead of trying to press two buttons at once (GCD + HS), a much easier way to do it would be to reconginze the 1.5s CD of Heroic Strike fit perfectly in between the 1.5s GCD; causing you to essentially use Heroic Strike in between GCDs, not in conjunction with. This created a faster playstyle, without a spammy feeling, because you weren't simply pressing one button over and over again.

Why the calls for more APM? If I wanted more APM I'd have chosen a class with a 1 second GCD, like a rogue or a feral. Or a 1.5s GCD glad (*shudder*).

What bothers me--and, I'd venture, most Fury players--is that sometimes we are sitting on our hands doing nothing, and other times we have everything proc at once and not enough throughput (due to the GCD) to hit everything before BT is up. This is THE fundamental design flaw for the current Fury spec, imo: excessive focus on procs and almost no focus on reliable, rotational abilities.

Bloodsurge should be removed and our rotational damage should be bumped passively via a massive buff to Bloodthirst. Bloodthirst should always grant a charge of raging blow, but only enrage on crit. These two changes would completely fix Fury's issues.

[VaevictusVII]

Pounding FS purely to get Reck back up, and then as much as possible to keep Reck up as much as possible, and then making the decision to FS for Reck or execute sub 20, is going to be so much fun. I mean let's pretend like it's not going to be an atrocious "rotation".

[Crisius]

I am completely disheartened by the current fury (and arms) design. The new setbonuses are terrible and while the trinket seems okay, it promotes bad play by players refusing to swap targets, and the excess ragegain, combined with furious strikes especially, will only further accentuate the bad aspects of the spec.

[Kumqatninja]

I had one of my greatest pulls this exp last night on Ore. I had at least 10 execute procs during opener, 20 sec solid on horn buff, rude interruption didn't bug out. I was above 95k going into the rolling phase. It was awesome! Sadly though, it was also our mage's best pull as well and we killed the boss so fast my CDs weren't up for execute(we hit execute like 15-20 sec after my second reck fell off in the 2nd p1, fastest we've ever done this boss), and no one logged

edit: oh someone did https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e-done&phase=1

[Artunias]

One thing I've found annoying about pushing for any kind of rank in general on a lot of fights is the fight lengths. We get more gear every week, sometimes you just have the stronger dps classes in. Sometimes most of your raid has great rng. You get the point.

And we have this really stupid ability called Anger Management that can fluctuate 15-25 or so seconds based on RNG. Last week on Gruul for instance, I had some shit RNG so all my cooldowns were about 10-15 seconds behind. Only got like 8 seconds of reck and wasted 12 or so of Avatar + Potion. I would have been better off going Siegebreaker. But even when you know fight lengths pretty well there can easily be 10-15 seconds of fluctuation in fight length. Combined with RNG changing your cooldowns off by 15-30 seconds.

It's just another annoyance of trying to plan and be consistent in what you have going on.

[FobManX]

One thing I've found annoying about pushing for any kind of rank in general on a lot of fights is the fight lengths. We get more gear every week, sometimes you just have the stronger dps classes in. Sometimes most of your raid has great rng. You get the point.

And we have this really stupid ability called Anger Management that can fluctuate 15-25 or so seconds based on RNG. Last week on Gruul for instance, I had some shit RNG so all my cooldowns were about 10-15 seconds behind. Only got like 8 seconds of reck and wasted 12 or so of Avatar + Potion. I would have been better off going Siegebreaker. But even when you know fight lengths pretty well there can easily be 10-15 seconds of fluctuation in fight length. Combined with RNG changing your cooldowns off by 15-30 seconds.

It's just another annoyance of trying to plan and be consistent in what you have going on.

Yeah agreed. Its why I don't really care about ranking right now. Well, that and we're only 1 boss into Mythic progression so now is not really the time to worry about ranking. Gotta get those progression kills first, then worry about ranking.


For M Oregorger, would Siegebreaker be better than AM? I don't think you can get extra Recks with AM(basically gonne be one per non roll phase regardless), but I do like how AM tends to sync everything together(Reck, Avatar, and trinket). Without it things seem to be off a lot more.

[Artunias]

Yeah agreed. Its why I don't really care about ranking right now. Well, that and we're only 1 boss into Mythic progression so now is not really the time to worry about ranking. Gotta get those progression kills first, then worry about ranking.


For M Oregorger, would Siegebreaker be better than AM? I don't think you can get extra Recks with AM(basically gonne be one per non roll phase regardless), but I do like how AM tends to sync everything together(Reck, Avatar, and trinket). Without it things seem to be off a lot more.

I can't give you solid math on if it's better or not. But I have found that AM gives me an extra Bloodbath or Avatar in each phase that I wouldn't have gotten other wise. Reck not so much, as it always comes up during the roll phase with AM.

[Deleted]

NEVER hold an Execute proc.

Your idea of holding it off can work though (but there's no situation I can think of where it would be useful in BrF) because it only procs on autos and therefore moving out of melee range makes sure you don't waste any proc.

Well the situation where I've been holding off sometimes has been in the event of not being enraged, I was just wondering if holding off a few seconds delays the next proc. For example on a monk it's nearly impossible to waste power strikes, since the timer for the next power strikes starts when the buff is given rather than consumed. Obviously sudden death is RNG and not a fixed timer but I was thinking if the timer reset when the buff was applied - that it wouldn't be a dps loss unless you were unlucky with a back to back proc or held off using it for way too long. Generally been trying to take one more roll on the bloodthirst RNG wheel and if it doesn't enrage me then I've just use it while non enraged.

[butkus]

i was hoping they'd clean fury up in 6.2. haven't raided in awhile on my warrior as i really hate the way arms and fury both play this expo. fury is a damn slot machine and arms is so insanely plain and boring to play in pve.

[Sethanor]

i was hoping they'd clean fury up in 6.2. haven't raided in awhile on my warrior as i really hate the way arms and fury both play this expo. fury is a damn slot machine and arms is so insanely plain and boring to play in pve.

arms MIGHT get better with 6.2 tho ... fury, not so much.
you should instead start hoping that this is the final tier in WoD so we can get over with this crap-storm and move on :P

on topic: playing with double mythic kromog 1h mace atm, omg, 19% haste (cause some bad items still), but for SMF it feels pretty good, rage-flow is so smooth >.<

[Sarosnar]

I had one of my greatest pulls this exp last night on Ore. I had at least 10 execute procs during opener, 20 sec solid on horn buff, rude interruption didn't bug out. I was above 95k going into the rolling phase. It was awesome! Sadly though, it was also our mage's best pull as well and we killed the boss so fast my CDs weren't up for execute(we hit execute like 15-20 sec after my second reck fell off in the 2nd p1, fastest we've ever done this boss), and no one logged

edit: oh someone did https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e-done&phase=1

Hey. We will do Oregorger Mythic in a not so far time i hope.

I took the time to analyze your logs and there's something i really don't understand.
If you filter on dammage done to Ore Crate i barely see only 2 people dammaging those crate.
And the total damage of your raid on Ore Crate is 902k ! Ore Crate are 765k each in mythic.
So is there an issue with recording damage on those Ore Crate with Warcraft log ?