[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[Archimtiros]

They just refuse to admit that when the decision to scrap one of our two 'strikes' came up, they picked the incorrect one.

Not really. Removing Heroic Strike was a much better decision than removing Wild Strike. It's just all the stuff that came after started to go downhill.

Truthfully, Wild Strike isn't really an issue, its the combination effect of everything else. Without Critting for Enrage, you don't want to Wild Strike, because why would you want to dump rage while not enraged? Multiple procs are fun, unfortunately they bottleneck the rotation as often as they provide a bonus. None of this is the fault of Wild Strike per say, it's just what gets affected most.

Consider that without Wild Strike, you wouldn't have anything to do for half your GCDs. At best you would BT, RB and let one go before the next BT unless you had a talent available or SD proc. Considering that SD procs are higher priority than anything else, you very likely wouldn't let them wait until you had that gap in your rotation anyways. Wild Strike fills a necessary void, it just has other underlying issues: Namely it's interaction with Bloodsurge (which is partially a problem with the cost of Wild Strike) and its lack of interaction with Haste.

None of that has anything to do with the set bonus though.

[angelmaz]

The original HS, properly balanced, would be infinitely preferable to WS. It cost a small amount of rage to "queue up", and replaced the next MH white hit with a yellow hit that generated no rage. You didn't have to worry about GCD issues at all, you simply queued-up HS for the next swing. No more bloodsurge cockblocking, no more retarded 0.75s fixed-GCD Wild Strikes that ruin our rotational rhythm. Balance tweaks would be needed or we'd probably be capping rage all the time. But I'd prefer the old HS as our rage dump to the abomination that is Wild Strike. Seriously, who asked for this lame off-hand ability? Everyone hates this thing, and not only is it staying, it's become the central focus of our T18 bonus. It makes no sense. I almost have to think someone at Blizz is trolling us here.

[Artunias]

I too often feel like we are getting trolled. I mean can has there been any one thing more controversial this expansion than wild strike? I can't think of it if there is. And they design an entire set bonus around it? I'm waiting for the icon for the set bonus to show up as trollface.jpeg

[Deleted]

Build is out and no surprise mage arcane set bonus change but no warrior change.

[Skellz]

Gearing out my hunter atm, in case things go far south for us.... But i would much like to continue to play my Warrior...

my hunter has been my goto alt. easy to play, and it has 3 specs, one of which has to be good after buffs/nerfs go out.

i do hope they see the problem with our set bonus... preferably before the patch drops.

[CollisionTD]

rip

[nativity]

rip

A Warrior named Trinket that can't be used by a Warrior ?? How fucking brilliant.. and it's almost an overlap to WW monk's SEF

[bladeXcrasher]

-snip-

I was going more for keeping HS as it was and just making bloodsurge do the same but to HS. Sure you run into the issue with everything being tied to BT, but at least with your rage dump off the gcd you don't run into bottlenecks or pushback that WS adds.

[Artunias]

I love how the shitty mage set bonus gets fixed and they get to be god tier dps. Yet we get no changes at all. Fucking sweet game boys.

[zyen]

This is what happens when you base the whole class around an RNG stat.. -.-

[Archimtiros]

I was going more for keeping HS as it was and just making bloodsurge do the same but to HS. Sure you run into the issue with everything being tied to BT, but at least with your rage dump off the gcd you don't run into bottlenecks or pushback that WS adds.

Yeah but then its an extra button added solely because of a bad mechanic. Sure it works, but it's not fixing the root cause, it's just adding a layer overtop of the cracked foundation.

Much better to fix the proc, either by reworking it or removing it.

[bladeXcrasher]

Yeah but then its an extra button added solely because of a bad mechanic. Sure it works, but it's not fixing the root cause, it's just adding a layer overtop of the cracked foundation.

Much better to fix the proc, either by reworking it or removing it.

I was referring to its (current fury) inception, not as a band-aid fix for the present. Extra button would not have been added, WS wouldn't exist and everywhere you currently see WS you would replace it with HS. Fury needs an overhaul, but we know that isn't happening anytime soon. I would love to see UT go away so BT can not hit like a wet noodle and I'd love to see all the RNG on top of RNG associated with the spec get toned down.

[Roiids]

Yeah was really sad to see they didnt update our tier with the others this build.... running out of time... =/.

[VaevictusVII]

lol, lol, trolled! They tweaked 4 set bonuses (2 for mages). Yet ours remains untouched, and our craptacular bonuses that are so inferior, t17 remains the goto gear out. It just looks so stubborn. "Like no guys you'll love it once you play it live"... "sims don't matter"... I don't even know I'm just trying to make up justifications at this point.

[neck deep]

well, the fel burn trinket crits now. that's a pretty big boost to the power of that trinket. fel burn/fel cleave together on aoe seems really fun. not mirror of the blademaster strong...

[Jaybee9084]

well, the fel burn trinket crits now. that's a pretty big boost to the power of that trinket. fel burn/fel cleave together on aoe seems really fun. not mirror of the blademaster strong...

The horn can also multistrike, as well.

Did some PTR dummy testing for about 10 minutes, it sat at 3rd on my damage done. I coupled the horn with the world breaker trinket, and was thoroughly surprised at how powerful the horn was. Makes me wonder how we will stack up against single-target power houses like cats, sub, and arcane once everyone gets geared in 6.2

[Archimtiros]

I was referring to its (current fury) inception, not as a band-aid fix for the present. Extra button would not have been added, WS wouldn't exist and everywhere you currently see WS you would replace it with HS. Fury needs an overhaul, but we know that isn't happening anytime soon. I would love to see UT go away so BT can not hit like a wet noodle and I'd love to see all the RNG on top of RNG associated with the spec get toned down.

Like I said though, that wouldn't fix anything. The spec would half half the APM it does now and tons of free globals, trading it for an off the GCD ability.

I know players like Heroic Strike and hate Wild Strike. I'd be inclined to agree with that opinion, but simply removing one and adding the other doesn't make the spec better by any means. It really doesn't fix the problem, you still wouldn't be able to spend rage unless you first spent your Bloodsurge problems, and the ability to use Raging Blow at the same time wouldn't mitigate that, since RB is such a trivial rage cost to begin with.

Again, off GCD abilities are only useful in a rotation when the rotation is already GCD locked.

- - - Updated - - -

The horn can also multistrike, as well.

Did some PTR dummy testing for about 10 minutes, it sat at 3rd on my damage done. I coupled the horn with the world breaker trinket, and was thoroughly surprised at how powerful the horn was. Makes me wonder how we will stack up against single-target power houses like cats, sub, and arcane once everyone gets geared in 6.2

Horn and DoT are about even for single target, while Horn is better for AoE. HecticAddCleave, that is a boss + waves of adds, it's close but you are generally better off using Haste + Cleave; while mass AoE (sustained 4+ target) you are better off using Cleave + DoT.

[satimy]

Not really. Removing Heroic Strike was a much better decision than removing Wild Strike. It's just all the stuff that came after started to go downhill.

Truthfully, Wild Strike isn't really an issue, its the combination effect of everything else. Without Critting for Enrage, you don't want to Wild Strike, because why would you want to dump rage while not enraged? Multiple procs are fun, unfortunately they bottleneck the rotation as often as they provide a bonus. None of this is the fault of Wild Strike per say, it's just what gets affected most.

Consider that without Wild Strike, you wouldn't have anything to do for half your GCDs. At best you would BT, RB and let one go before the next BT unless you had a talent available or SD proc. Considering that SD procs are higher priority than anything else, you very likely wouldn't let them wait until you had that gap in your rotation anyways. Wild Strike fills a necessary void, it just has other underlying issues: Namely it's interaction with Bloodsurge (which is partially a problem with the cost of Wild Strike) and its lack of interaction with Haste.

None of that has anything to do with the set bonus though.

A non GCD heroic strike fit really well for fury IMO, I also liked Deadly Calm and Inner Rage as well as the old Bloodsurge (slam!) proc.

[angelmaz]

Again, off GCD abilities are only useful in a rotation when the rotation is already GCD locked.

This is simply not true. In fact, regularly used off-GCD abilities should NEVER be introduced in a GCD-locked spec. Why? Because it, by definition, will create frequent situations where you have to use multiples abilities in a single GCD. That is fine occasionally, not regularly.

An off-GCD ability substituted for WS, like Heroic strike, would completely mitigate the throughput issues with Fury's rotation. Regardless of what is proccing, we would be able to bleed off rage easily. It would be a huge quality of life improvement.

Instead we have Wild Strike. A lame, weak, off-hand ability. With a 0.75s GCD, totally unaffected by haste. The glaring, jarring cost of using WS is only going to become more apparent in 6.2, when we are running around with tons of haste. It is going to massively disrupt the already poor flow of our rotation.

[Archimtiros]

This is simply not true. In fact, regularly used off-GCD abilities should NEVER be introduced in a GCD-locked spec. Why? Because it, by definition, will create frequent situations where you have to use multiples abilities in a single GCD. That is fine occasionally, not regularly.

An off-GCD ability substituted for WS, like Heroic strike, would completely mitigate the throughput issues with Fury's rotation. Regardless of what is proccing, we would be able to bleed off rage easily. It would be a huge quality of life improvement.

Instead we have Wild Strike. A lame, weak, off-hand ability. With a 0.75s GCD, totally unaffected by haste. The glaring, jarring cost of using WS is only going to become more apparent in 6.2, when we are running around with tons of haste. It is going to massively disrupt the already poor flow of our rotation.

Not at all, because if your using it off the GCD, it's just as common for you to use it in conjunction with other abilities, even if you aren't GCD locked. In fact your example states just that, letting you use HS to dump rage while using other abilities, and does absolutely nothing to affect throughput. In fact the entire point of off-GCD abilities is to allow you to use multiple abilities in a single GCD, hence why almost every performance enhancing cooldown in the game is off-GCD.

The idea is fine, but it's problem is that it doesn't actually fix anything. I'm not saying Wild Strike is great, I don't like the ability one bit, but simply replacing it with Heroic Strike, beloved ability that it is, doesn't help anything.

Consider the following:

• Bloodsurge would either need to become 1 charge, or it would take you 3s to dump charges, making it take twice as long to be able to spend rage again once its procced, which means it basically becomes Ultimatum (minus the auto crit).
• Heroic Strike being off the GCD would cause Fury to have even less GCDs filled, since you can, and therefor probably will, at least part of the time, use Heroic Strike in conjunction with other abilities (in fact many people will set up macros to do this purposefully), this means gaps in the rotation; such as Bloodthirst - RB - wait - BT. This is just as jarring, if not moreso than pushing back BT half a second, just ask any Arms player.
• Heroic Strike could create scenarios in which it could be used in conjunction with AoE/Execute during high rage situations. While some players would consider this a good thing, it brings us right back to the reason in which Heroic Strike was removed in the first place.

Sure, you can argue the points. Nothing will stop someone from saying "I like Heroic Strike, I'd rather have it than Wild Strike". I'd be inclined to agree. However, the only situation in which it would really be beneficial is when Execute, Bloodsurge, Raging Blow all proc and rage is high. This is honestly a rare occurance, and even then we would face rage capping issues, since it would take twice as long to dump Bloodsurge procs.

Again, the source of the issue is Bloodsurge. Even Wild Strikes 0.75s GCD isn't that problematic. All it does is push back Bloodthirst. Annoying? Absolutely, but it doesn't seriously impact the rotation even with the Haste trinket. In any case it ins't nearly as bad as biggest issue with Fury, which is the crit reliance.