[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[apoe]

With T18 4 piece, do we just pop Reck whenever it's up or should we be trying to sync it with legendary ring whenever we can? Its just wacky because so many times Reck will be up but the ring is like ~1-1:30 away and I'm not sure if I should wait or just use it.

There's RNG involved obviously, but if ring has like 30s or less on CD I will save my reck for it. That is an arbitrary number that I've found works well for me. If you sim yourself and look at the average interval between recks it should give you a good estimate.

[manticzeus]

With the t18 buff is it better to run Heroic t18 or is t17 better still?

[Archimtiros]

not exactly, with wild strike it only has a single chance to crit on a single target, WW gives you a chance per target, so 5 targets is 5 times the greater chance to get a reduction of recklessness. They'd need to make it so only a crit on your current target can trigger it otherwise it'd function much like t17's 2 set, where using WW on a large enough pool of targets is basically a guaranteed crit somewhere amongst them.

or you know, make recklessness actually good so that the loss in aoe damage while using bloodsurge stacks is more than made up for by the early reck.

But that would make up for the fact that Wild Strike is used twice every chance you could use Whirlwind due to the half GCD. It's not perfect, it would take a little bit of looking, but it would be infinitely better, and easier than the alternatives.

If you just made Reck really good, then Warriors simply wouldn't Cleave, in the hopes of getting Reck back up sooner, which also is not preferable.

- - - Updated - - -

There's RNG involved obviously, but if ring has like 30s or less on CD I will save my reck for it. That is an arbitrary number that I've found works well for me. If you sim yourself and look at the average interval between recks it should give you a good estimate.

Playing averages, you want to save Reck unless you have more than ~45 seconds, since that is the average cooldown of it (with AM).

[zyen]

I personally do think that recklessness could use some kind of buff, like a 10% mastery or something.

Even if I don't crit during this phase, I still get a little bit of damage from it.

[nativity]

I personally do think that recklessness could use some kind of buff, like a 10% mastery or something.

Even if I don't crit during this phase, I still get a little bit of damage from it.

A damage buff of 10% during reck ?

[Ryanite]

But that would make up for the fact that Wild Strike is used twice every chance you could use Whirlwind due to the half GCD. It's not perfect, it would take a little bit of looking, but it would be infinitely better, and easier than the alternatives.

If you just made Reck really good, then Warriors simply wouldn't Cleave, in the hopes of getting Reck back up sooner, which also is not preferable.

I believe there's a line to be found where recklessness would be good enough to warrant definite usage of bloodsurge stacks without the need to feel you must avoid meat cleaving entirely. Where only 100% chance is worth dropping the aoe damage.

I feel that even when capped to 1 reduction stack per WW it'd pretty much ensure that on fights like Iskar you'd pretty much have 100% chance that after 6 WW's you will have reset recklessness and I don't feel that's their intention. I feel that they intend the tier set bonus to have an element of rng, where as you feel lucky for getting a few bloodsurge crits in a row almost instantly resetting recklessness and there for come to enjoy bloodsurge as a part of our kit. Suddenly being stuck at 90 rage with 2 bloodsurge stacks isn't as bad.

Recklessness is definitely a weak cd but I don't feel very much is needed in order to achieve what I want. With a -30 reduction incoming, I'd say the people above me are correct in saying that a damage buff is needed but keeping in line with the current iteration of recklessness it'd be in the form of increasing the current critical strike damage bonus/ crit chance and seeing how it goes from there.

[Archimtiros]

I believe there's a line to be found where recklessness would be good enough to warrant definite usage of bloodsurge stacks without the need to feel you must avoid meat cleaving entirely. Where only 100% chance is worth dropping the aoe damage.

I feel that even when capped to 1 reduction stack per WW it'd pretty much ensure that on fights like Iskar you'd pretty much have 100% chance that after 6 WW's you will have reset recklessness and I don't feel that's their intention. I feel that they intend the tier set bonus to have an element of rng, where as you feel lucky for getting a few bloodsurge crits in a row almost instantly resetting recklessness and there for come to enjoy bloodsurge as a part of our kit. Suddenly being stuck at 90 rage with 2 bloodsurge stacks isn't as bad.

Recklessness is definitely a weak cd but I don't feel very much is needed in order to achieve what I want. With a -30 reduction incoming, I'd say the people above me are correct in saying that a damage buff is needed but keeping in line with the current iteration of recklessness it'd be in the form of increasing the current critical strike damage bonus/ crit chance and seeing how it goes from there.

Well you already do use Bloodsurge, even while Meat Cleaving, I was just pointing out that if you buffed Reck considerably, then players would stop Meat Cleaving in favor of using (non bloodsurged) Wild Strikes. If it's too weak (as current), they ignore Wild Strike in favor of Meat Cleaving.

The fix is obvious, reduction should work while Meat Cleaving. It isn't like our cleave is extraordinarily strong to begin with, it definitely wouldn't imbalance us.

[Khelon]

Have anyone tried to sim fury single target dps after these changes with like 37-40% crit instead of 30%? Since you only need 1 bloodsurge proc, full rage before using reck & one more bloodthirst to gain rage for the 6th wild strike to reset the whole cooldown. This can all be done within 10 sec, while with 25 sec reduction, you needed 8, which isnt possible without 2 bloodsurge procs within 10 sec.

You will naturally gain 30% crit with bis heroic gear, so with mythic gear can you past that, but Im mainly pointing towards enchanting and gemming crit instead of mastery. Sure it will hurt arms preformance, but if Im progressing on a fight where I only play fury, I will reenchant my gear till its down if it makes a difference.

[Deleted]

Have anyone tried to sim fury single target dps after these changes with like 37-40% crit instead of 30%? Since you only need 1 bloodsurge proc, full rage before using reck & one more bloodthirst to gain rage for the 6th wild strike to reset the whole cooldown. This can all be done within 10 sec, while with 25 sec reduction, you needed 8, which isnt possible without 2 bloodsurge procs within 10 sec.

You will naturally gain 30% crit with bis heroic gear, so with mythic gear can you past that, but Im mainly pointing towards enchanting and gemming crit instead of mastery. Sure it will hurt arms preformance, but if Im progressing on a fight where I only play fury, I will reenchant my gear till its down if it makes a difference.

If anything it should further devalue crit, since you will have a higher recklessness uptime and thus higher average crit chance, reducing the relative gain of a single crit point. Additionally it should further increase the Enrage uptime, boosting the value of mastery ever so slightly. In reality I´m sure that the differences will be minimal either way

[Kelato]

So after simming my character i got the following stat weights:

Str 1.00
Haste 0.97
AP 0.93
Crit 0.86
Mastery 0.77
Multistrike 0.77
Vers 0.70

As trinkets i got HC Horn and Normal class trinket.
Unbuffed stats are:

Crit 24.25%
Mastery 45.36%
Haste 2.37%

Are those high stat weights for haste plausible? I mean I would understand them without the class trinket. But with I am a bit sceptical.

[Devastathor]

Couple of pages back, excact same question

No, it's correct; though you are misinterpreting the results.

A high stat weight doesn't mean you need a lot of it, or that it is necessary, it simply means you get more out of that stat than another. It could be for 100 of that stat (the simcraft default) or it could be for 1,000. There are ways to customize that, but in practice its a whole lot easier to do a scale plot. This will give you a much clearer "long term" projection of what happens as you add a stat. Even better is a Reforge Plot which will evaluate the change in DPS as you trade one stat for another (ex: Crit <-> Mastery, note it is important that you only do 2 stats at a time with a reforge plot, trust me).

Anyways, the reason Haste is simming higher now... is because we have more of it! Haste has a consistent effect: It reduces the CD of BT and the GCD in a linear fashion. What isn't consistent is how that plays out in our rotation, and you can mostly thank Wild Strike for that. At no Haste, Wild Strike fits perfectly: 2 into one GCD, but every point of Haste past that causes slight clipping. Thing is, once Worldbreaker's throws such a heavy amount of the stat at us, Haste goes from creating an overlap to eliminating it, by bringing us closer to a 1s GCD.

Of course there are a host of other factors, such as rage generation, crit value dropping, extra BS/RB procs via more Bloodthirsts in the rotation and so on. It should be noted too that Haste isn't nearly as strong a stat for Multi-Target/AOE, which is why you don't see most Warriors bothering with it.


TLDR: Worldbreaker's proves that if you give enough of a stat, anything can become good; just like the Tank Leg Ring and Versatility.

[Kelato]

Couple of pages back, excact same question

Thank you, I somehow overlooked that post.

[Stringer-]

Hi everyone, I just made a warrior, don't know anything about them except what I learned levelling him to lvl 40+, been playing fury because idc honestly the name sounded cooler than Arms and didn't want to tank, haven't looked at dps warriors in raids (I just pug Heroic HFC) but noticed that everyone goes Gladiator Stance, is it by far the best DPS spec or was it just a coincidence? Thanks in advance.

[Archimtiros]

Hi everyone, I just made a warrior, don't know anything about them except what I learned levelling him to lvl 40+, been playing fury because idc honestly the name sounded cooler than Arms and didn't want to tank, haven't looked at dps warriors in raids (I just pug Heroic HFC) but noticed that everyone goes Gladiator Stance, is it by far the best DPS spec or was it just a coincidence? Thanks in advance.

Especially this early in (and you can't even play Glad, though you can pretend pretty well as Prot), just play whatever you find the most enjoyable. Once you get to 100, and if you decide you enjoy the class enough to take it further, you can worry about performance, though even then I would say it really doesn't matter until you start getting into organized raiding, or you are just overly competitive.

To answer the question; Fury is the all around top raiding choice, due to it's single target and burst AoE potential. Arms is a very close second due to the number of cleave encounters in Hellfire Citadel. Gladiator lags behind, being neither as strong ST as Fury, as strong cleave as Arms, or having much AoE potential. However, it remains a "crowd favorite", and is easily accessible for players who like to DPS and Tank.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...&class=Warrior

Fury: 105k boss kills.
Arms: 38k
Glad: 4k

[Stringer-]

Especially this early in (and you can't even play Glad, though you can pretend pretty well as Prot), just play whatever you find the most enjoyable. Once you get to 100, and if you decide you enjoy the class enough to take it further, you can worry about performance, though even then I would say it really doesn't matter until you start getting into organized raiding, or you are just overly competitive.

To answer the question; Fury is the all around top raiding choice, due to it's single target and burst AoE potential. Arms is a very close second due to the number of cleave encounters in Hellfire Citadel. Gladiator lags behind, being neither as strong ST as Fury, as strong cleave as Arms, or having much AoE potential. However, it remains a "crowd favorite", and is easily accessible for players who like to DPS and Tank.

I was mainly asking because of being a completely new class I didnt want to be playing a spec that I would've to switch, sticking with Fury then.

[Bigbazz]

If you play it well then any/all of the Warrior specs are good enough for the everyday guild, it's when you don't play well that it becomes a problem. I played Gladiator on this weeks Mythic HFA, glory numbers can't match Fury but the priority and spread dps is stronger during most of the fight. Like really at this point you're always overgearing content by the time you reach it and min-maxing difference between the Warrior specs is just whatever, being good at one is more important.

Even on Kormrok, Fury Warrior is a god on that fight with Bladestorm, but you could just accept being a little bitch and let someone else focus on that and do the single target focus and contribute just as much.. Not that I think you should do that, my guild runs 4 dps Warriors in all our main raids because it was the only way we could make 20man for Mythic, and all 4 of us try to get in on the bladestorm action, hands on Kormrok Mythic die before Bladestorm ends even if you pre Bladestorm... But fuck it, it hurts nobody to get them out of the hands faster, we can all rank shit together.

By all means though, I wish our other Warriors went Arms or Gladiator for that fight just so that I could inflate my epeen.

[Archimtiros]

Even on Kormrok, Fury Warrior is a god on that fight with Bladestorm, but you could just accept being a little bitch and let someone else focus on that and do the single target focus

Or you could have a single Demo Lock and watch everyone else in your raid (Warrior included) become impotent.

[zyen]

I didn't know demo locks were still a thing.

on the other hand, I did 40k + ST DPS on my 670 Aff lock with baleful gear. #balanced

[Archimtiros]

I didn't know demo locks were still a thing.

on the other hand, I did 40k + ST DPS on my 670 Aff lock with baleful gear. #balanced

They have the highest short AoE burst potential in the game, so yeah, still a thing, but only on Kromrok and Mannoroth. Destro and Aff split the rest.