[GUIDE] Drunken Savagery: Brewmaster Tanking in [6.2]

[Deleted]

Alright I've calmed down.

CHI EX CRIT BUILD IS GO IT'S SIEGE OF DODGERIMMAR TIME KIDS

[hatduck]

Net effect with the current change in numbers is to completely break the back of the core Shuffle->Purify cycle, which is a 35%+ nerf to the value of mastery (and haste, kek) and probably a similar-sized buff to crit. When you're taking 90-80% of damage up front instead of 50-40%, dodges are much more valuable.

I'd be very interested to see the results of a TMI stat weight sim that includes the changes, because my guess would be our new stat priority is crit >> ms/vers > mastery >>>> haste.

Let's hope they decide to make boss mechanics dodgeable in HFC, because otherwise our only predictive defenses are Guard, FB, and calling for externals.

Except the current change in numbers is completely meaningless and and anyone who says otherwise is just being an alarmist and not being constructive. These are placeholder numbers. There is no point in discussing them in the current state. Let's talk about whether they hit the nail on the head or not with the changes from a design perspective.

[Deleted]

Does chi ex suffer with the damage reduction of BoK? cuz if not Brewmaster DPS hype \o\ KEEP ME ALIVE HEALERS!

[Deleted]

Except the current change in numbers is completely meaningless and and anyone who says otherwise is just being an alarmist and not being constructive. These are placeholder numbers. There is no point in discussing them in the current state. Let's talk about whether they hit the nail on the head or not with the changes from a design perspective.

Nerfing base Stagger amount; good.

Removing additional Stagger from Shuffle; ...odd.

Not touching Guard; interesting.

Everything indicated steers Monks into becoming the new Death Knights, while Death Knights are heading towards a shockingly stable health pool.

- - - Updated - - -

Does chi ex suffer with the damage reduction of BoK? cuz if not Brewmaster DPS hype \o\ KEEP ME ALIVE HEALERS!

In official notes only Windwalker Chi Ex was touched. Not sure about Brewmaster.

[Deleted]

Does chi ex suffer with the damage reduction of BoK? cuz if not Brewmaster DPS hype \o\ KEEP ME ALIVE HEALERS!

Edit: nvm, didn't read that it was only for windwalker.Though I really don't get the dps nerfs. We're more or less on par with druids and warriors, while BoS DKs are miles ahead. At least on the upper percentiles.

[hatduck]

Nerfing base Stagger amount; good.

Removing additional Stagger from Shuffle; ...odd.

Not touching Guard; interesting.

Everything indicated steers Monks into becoming the new Death Knights, while Death Knights are heading towards a shockingly stable health pool.

- - - Updated - - -



In official notes only Windwalker Chi Ex was touched. Not sure about Brewmaster.

The Shuffle thing feels right to me. It's only punishing to bad Brewmasters. Let them raise the floor a bit, I don't mind.

[pandanaconda]

CHI EX BOYZ.

So the Chi-Ex nerf only applies to my WW spec. Makes no sense to me that they nerfed 30% on BoK for BrM too. I mean, when BrM's got confident enough they mostly went ChiEx for more damage. Of course the tiger palm nerf is pretty big too but w/e, I've never been such a huge fan of this filler.

So, we all knew nerfs were coming, and where does it put us...
Base stagger pretty much gone, but we were able to stack so much stagger anyways. On progress, I recall BrM's having up to 50-60% stagger. With 20% gone, we'll still be at a good 30% stagger.
Elusive brew is still just as broken (if we ever see mechanics like Maraks soft enrage again, it's ready) to deal with physical damage. Shuffle buff is weaker but since we were able to keep it up, we should still do it. Just means if you need some extra chi to guard/purify at some point and let it drop for a couple seconds (thinking ChiEx) its not a catastrophy.
What did our active mitigation consist of? Elusive brew, though sometimes we just used it over the course of the fight to soften tanking. Fort brew, which is still as broken as allways. EH, which might be clunkier with spike damage now. Guard, left untouched (!). Dampen harm/diffusemagic/healingelixir is still a very strong talent tier.

Don't know what this extra armor buff will do to BrM. I guess they're experimenting with BrM, but since its way different from any other tank, they try to make them look like any other tank by giving us more armor and tuning down stagger.


I'm not sure its that bad for us. The damage nerf seem pretty harsh. The highest parse on Gruul was a BrM with 20% of his damage from tiger palm. Didn't feel like we were anywhere near blood DK damage or anything, but hey w/e. Waiting for more information on next tier, allthough i'm not a huge fan of T18 boni/the monk trinket's BrM boni.

[Rockets]

Except the current change in numbers is completely meaningless and and anyone who says otherwise is just being an alarmist and not being constructive. These are placeholder numbers. There is no point in discussing them in the current state. Let's talk about whether they hit the nail on the head or not with the changes from a design perspective.

I was talking about it from a design perspective. Numbers are part of the design; they determine what incentives exist, which buttons you should push and when, and how you should be gearing. Like I said, the goal seems to be to make the Shuffle->Purify cycle much less important, and EB (and therefore our attuned stat, crit) much more important.

[Azaranth]

I don't understand why people feel like the serenity change is clunky, but I'm not saying you're wrong. What's wrong with smaller bursts of free Chi? Am I missing something?

The only thing I thought when I saw that was "Huh, less free Chi. BRING ON THE CHIEX BOYS"

Good question.

I guess my biggest complaint with Serenity is that it's just a 1-minute obligatory cycle that generates some free shuffle for us. The button might as well say "Press this to gain 20 seconds of Shuffle - 60 second cooldown". That's not really interesting or fun, there's no real gameplay here.

I like the idea of using Serenity as a psuedo defensive cooldown. If a big damage phase is coming, it's nice to tank the hell out of something while purifying all staggered damage. I think a 10 second duration fits this sort of gameplay better, but it's a nuanced difference.

Sure, the increased frequency has it's advantages too. You can now squeeze it between Keg Smash cooldowns, which is sort of nice. I just suspect that it's going to become a 1-minute obligatory cycle that we use purely for shuffle generation, but doesn't really have much interesting gameplay beyond that.

Ultimately, I just dislike the design of serenity with regard to Brewmaster. It's previous incarnation gave us one less thing to worry about (shuffle duration), but was hardly necessary for well played Brewmasters. The changes just make it even less compelling. It would be a shame to use Chi Explosion for all 13 fights in the coming tier.

[dcc626]

Easier to chop one tree, than grow 4.

Buffing 4 classes can lead to so many unintended mess ups, whilst nerfing one tends to be less disaster prone.

Except they chopped one Down, strengthened one up and left 3 to fend for themselves

[Deleted]

Except they chopped one Down, strengthened one up and left 3 to fend for themselves

Well, the other 4 trees weren't of the same height.

Yes they gave a couple of trees some fertilizer and some light to grow in, but it wasn't as major as chopping a tree down, certainly didn't bring them up to the height as the other trees or to the tree that was felled.

[Deleted]

CHI EX BOYZ.

So the Chi-Ex nerf only applies to my WW spec. Makes no sense to me that they nerfed 30% on BoK for BrM too. I mean, when BrM's got confident enough they mostly went ChiEx for more damage. Of course the tiger palm nerf is pretty big too but w/e, I've never been such a huge fan of this filler.

So, we all knew nerfs were coming, and where does it put us...
Base stagger pretty much gone, but we were able to stack so much stagger anyways. On progress, I recall BrM's having up to 50-60% stagger. With 20% gone, we'll still be at a good 30% stagger.
Elusive brew is still just as broken (if we ever see mechanics like Maraks soft enrage again, it's ready) to deal with physical damage. Shuffle buff is weaker but since we were able to keep it up, we should still do it. Just means if you need some extra chi to guard/purify at some point and let it drop for a couple seconds (thinking ChiEx) its not a catastrophy.
What did our active mitigation consist of? Elusive brew, though sometimes we just used it over the course of the fight to soften tanking. Fort brew, which is still as broken as allways. EH, which might be clunkier with spike damage now. Guard, left untouched (!). Dampen harm/diffusemagic/healingelixir is still a very strong talent tier.

Don't know what this extra armor buff will do to BrM. I guess they're experimenting with BrM, but since its way different from any other tank, they try to make them look like any other tank by giving us more armor and tuning down stagger.


I'm not sure its that bad for us. The damage nerf seem pretty harsh. The highest parse on Gruul was a BrM with 20% of his damage from tiger palm. Didn't feel like we were anywhere near blood DK damage or anything, but hey w/e. Waiting for more information on next tier, allthough i'm not a huge fan of T18 boni/the monk trinket's BrM boni.

The less stagger you have the less valuable will mastery be, therefore i think crit will probably be better than mastery ( didnt theorycraft anything, just speaking my mind)

[thedr8993]

In my opinion, stagger was such an elegant solution to the spikiness that is typically inherent to avoidance (and more importantly in our case, leather wearing) tanks. By emphasizing stagger, and a balance b/w Shuffle and Purify, good BrM are rewarded with the lowest DTPS and therefore make lives easier for the healers and the raid. Was it TOO much? Yep. 2x BrM on progression clears makes that abundantly clear. Is the proper response to gut the spec and subsequently buff Guardian Druids? Probably not.

These changes, to me, seem more like a push towards praying to RNGesus and relying on your healers to do more heavy lifting. For the most part, I'll reserve judgement until after PTR tests and number changes, but taking almost double (the 75% increase) the overall damage... that's just rough. Not to mention the fact that I'm a fan of the Shuffle and Purify mechanics and seeing it sort of go out the window is saddening.

[Trendy-Ideology]

The less stagger you have the less valuable will mastery be, therefore i think crit will probably be better than mastery ( didnt theorycraft anything, just speaking my mind)

Viva la DPS trinkets?

[hatduck]

Except they chopped one Down, strengthened one up and left 3 to fend for themselves

*snipped image*

[Deleted]

Viva la DPS trinkets?

no man we need the bonus armor trinkets cuz you know dat armor buff 2 stronk

[Deleted]

Is the proper response to gut the spec and subsequently buff Guardian Druids? Probably not.

What's wrong with buffing Guardians?

They fixed the area where they were weak, and in a way that isn't obscene. 20% physical DR does not allow them to abuse anything, just plugs holes and allows them to have some way to mitigate boss abilities when before they had none, nothing too huge.

[vykas]

Quick question, does the armor from SotSO also increase our AP? Would that be a possible justification for the 30% reductions to TP and BoK?

[Rockets]

Quick question, does the armor from SotSO also increase our AP? Would that be a possible justification for the 30% reductions to TP and BoK?

It probably does, but nah that's not why, they just forgot that specs other than WW use those abilities ever. Again.

[thedr8993]

What's wrong with buffing Guardians?

They fixed the area where they were weak, and in a way that isn't obscene. 20% physical DR does not allow them to abuse anything, just plugs holes and allows them to have some way to mitigate boss abilities when before they had none, nothing too huge.

Apologies. Didn't mean to imply that buffing Guardian Druids was a bad thing. They needed it. It just feels awkward that Blizz wants to "bring us in line" but are overshooting our nerfs and buffs druids seemingly to where we were.