[6.0 Guide] Arms - The 10 second master

[Deleted]

Same applies for Hunters imo

Well , the fact is not if the hunters got same problem on execute time or not cuz they do lots of damage out of that range while we suck a little ( talking ST at least ). I'm personally very tired by not having a good sustained damage because the fights always oscilate as it do my dps getting low or high depending of the CD'S management because of the fight lenght ( this week we got more gear and the boss is 20s shorter PLUS the AM & t18/trinket ... etc ) or any other boss cirumstances , when we only had to calculate the the fight lenght in BRF was funny , but now is a little burden.

[Warriorsarri]

So it's been quite some time since I've played arms for Archimonde.

Finally got to mythic last night, hitboxes seem finicky as fuck with sweeping on this. Anyone else experienced that? Any pointers? Kind of annoying, we only had a few pulls haven't had time to really figure it out.

You can't at any point cleave from any add on to the boss, but you can cleave from the boss to any add which is in range. On progress I wouldn't care about it and hard switch to the targets that need to die (unless you have consistent 1% wipes, making the extra boss damage worth it), but on Farm I'd consider simply sitting on the boss, and cleave from him onto all the adds available. This is especially potent when the boss gets below 20% as cleaving executes onto the secondary target deals around 80-95% of the damage you would have otherwise done by hard switching over to it.

[Artunias]

You can't at any point cleave from any add on to the boss, but you can cleave from the boss to any add which is in range. On progress I wouldn't care about it and hard switch to the targets that need to die (unless you have consistent 1% wipes, making the extra boss damage worth it), but on Farm I'd consider simply sitting on the boss, and cleave from him onto all the adds available. This is especially potent when the boss gets below 20% as cleaving executes onto the secondary target deals around 80-95% of the damage you would have otherwise done by hard switching over to it.

I see. Well aright then. Thanks for the info.

[Deleted]

Well , the fact is not if the hunters got same problem on execute time or not cuz they do lots of damage out of that range while we suck a little ( talking ST at least ). I'm personally very tired by not having a good sustained damage because the fights always oscilate as it do my dps getting low or high depending of the CD'S management because of the fight lenght ( this week we got more gear and the boss is 20s shorter PLUS the AM & t18/trinket ... etc ) or any other boss cirumstances , when we only had to calculate the the fight lenght in BRF was funny , but now is a little burden.

I agree, but it's not as bad as you make it sound :P Just gotta figure out if you're able to get a full length extra reck using AM and if not if there's lots of AoE or ST. I've been really lazy on our farm as Fury and just stuck with Siegebreaker, only fight I switch to AM is Kormrok and use FS... Probably not even that optimal but I get purps so not fussed.

Archimonde on HC at least is just a shitfest anyway, the deathcaller likes to chill in fire when we move for allure so cleaving off him is aids hence rip the executes. Or, we take too long getting him low so someone yells out to hit him and suddenly he goes from 30% to dead in 5 globals! Personally the biggest issue for me is how big of a difference the use of execute is, would like more emphasis on Mortal Strike damage. I know Execute is meant to be big blah blah but it's so easy to fuck a Warrior over (albeit unintentionally).

I've grown accustomed to saying "If I'm near top as Arms it's because you're not killing adds fast enough", seems to work pretty well for progress

[Artunias]

I agree, but it's not as bad as you make it sound :P Just gotta figure out if you're able to get a full length extra reck using AM and if not if there's lots of AoE or ST. I've been really lazy on our farm as Fury and just stuck with Siegebreaker, only fight I switch to AM is Kormrok and use FS... Probably not even that optimal but I get purps so not fussed.

Archimonde on HC at least is just a shitfest anyway, the deathcaller likes to chill in fire when we move for allure so cleaving off him is aids hence rip the executes. Or, we take too long getting him low so someone yells out to hit him and suddenly he goes from 30% to dead in 5 globals! Personally the biggest issue for me is how big of a difference the use of execute is, would like more emphasis on Mortal Strike damage. I know Execute is meant to be big blah blah but it's so easy to fuck a Warrior over (albeit unintentionally).

I've grown accustomed to saying "If I'm near top as Arms it's because you're not killing adds fast enough", seems to work pretty well for progress

It's almost like we've been begging since beta for less emphasis to be on execute.

#wodwarriorlife

[Archimtiros]

Unfortunately Arms Execute isn't big unless you have the necessary time to prepare for and enact it, making it much more difficult to use on short lived adds than, say a Hunter who just uses Kill Shot when the button lights up.

Warriors used to be that way; until the addition of Colossus Smash, need to manually reapply Rend, and ludicrously high rage cost adjustments. For an "Execute" spec, it sure has to jump through a whole lot of hoops to actually Execute anything.

[Artunias]

Unfortunately Arms Execute isn't big unless you have the necessary time to prepare for and enact it, making it much more difficult to use on short lived adds than, say a Hunter who just uses Kill Shot when the button lights up.

Warriors used to be that way; until the addition of Colossus Smash, need to manually reapply Rend, and ludicrously high rage cost adjustments. For an "Execute" spec, it sure has to jump through a whole lot of hoops to actually Execute anything.

While the insane rage cost and trying to keep rend on things can certainly be annoying, I find the biggest issue to be with colossus smash. Even if you use it at 70-80% there is a pretty real chance on many adds that it won't reset before the add dies (perhaps not super common, but common enough). And the execute is a little wimpy without the colossus smash debuff applied.

I also hate any kind of extended execute phase. As you are totally at the will of the auto attack rng gods. And to a lesser degree how your colossus resets. Really wish execute would give us a buff to turn CS or MS into a rage generator. Not like we're mopping the floor on damage.

[Archimtiros]

While the insane rage cost and trying to keep rend on things can certainly be annoying, I find the biggest issue to be with colossus smash. Even if you use it at 70-80% there is a pretty real chance on many adds that it won't reset before the add dies (perhaps not super common, but common enough). And the execute is a little wimpy without the colossus smash debuff applied.

I also hate any kind of extended execute phase. As you are totally at the will of the auto attack rng gods. And to a lesser degree how your colossus resets. Really wish execute would give us a buff to turn CS or MS into a rage generator. Not like we're mopping the floor on damage.

Well I was more referring to GCD cost of Rend reapplication. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with reapplying Rend, rather than a blanket Thunderclap on all; just pointing out that it doesn't lend itself to our Execute rotation, that requires us to pool rage and time our abilities appropriately. I'd be ok if we could reapply Rend whenever we wanted but because of the 5s rule/last tick explosion, to often Rend is going to tick out while you want to Execute, forcing you to choose one or the other. The real problem here is with Execute though, not Rend (IMO).

The second issue you hit on correctly: Arms lends itself to a long Execute phase, but the Rage cost definitely doesn't. I loved the Alpha incarnation of Arms, wherein rage generation was doubled sub 20% to account for using the costly ability more often, but without that we are rage starved after one cycle, and that makes the extra rage conversion of Execute pretty worthless.

[Artunias]

Well I was more referring to GCD cost of Rend reapplication. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with reapplying Rend, rather than a blanket Thunderclap on all; just pointing out that it doesn't lend itself to our Execute rotation, that requires us to pool rage and time our abilities appropriately. I'd be ok if we could reapply Rend whenever we wanted but because of the 5s rule/last tick explosion, to often Rend is going to tick out while you want to Execute, forcing you to choose one or the other. The real problem here is with Execute though, not Rend (IMO).

The second issue you hit on correctly: Arms lends itself to a long Execute phase, but the Rage cost definitely doesn't. I loved the Alpha incarnation of Arms, wherein rage generation was doubled sub 20% to account for using the costly ability more often, but without that we are rage starved after one cycle, and that makes the extra rage conversion of Execute pretty worthless.

So much about Alpha arms had promise if they would have just used it in the beta to flesh it out and refine it slightly.

But alas, instead we were given piss and shit.

[Deleted]

I just find it hilarious how I can fuck up my rotation and be 7 seconds behind on my reck to execute Tyrant (who we killed last night, fuck yeah son) but then do 2 full 60 rage executes and it'll be off CD.


Of course my DPS was shit (130k..) but yeah fuck execute man. Bring back Overpower, no-ones ever suggested that before.

[Artunias]

I noticed something interesting, I was running some sims to check out some optimal two target stat weights. Under various scenarios it had haste as my second highest stat, almost matching mastery.

Which seemed rather...odd.

Is there some weird GCD breakpoint with the 4pc bonus that inflates haste?

[lagunablade]

So does arms do about the same damage as fury on single target now?

[Shiroh]

So does arms do about the same damage as fury on single target now?

Well, Arms has a higher variance and higher ceiling than Fury. I wonder if there is a realistic way to know which one is better on average.

[Artunias]

Well, Arms has a higher variance and higher ceiling than Fury. I wonder if there is a realistic way to know which one is better on average.

I've always chosen to gamble because fury is pretty much just shit no matter what on single target. Arms you can at least roll the dice and maybe do good damage. Unless the rest of your raid doesn't have a great run, fury will just always be bad. Arms at least has a chance not to be.

[Deleted]

I've seen quite a few top logs using Avatar over Bloodbath now. Is there a reason for this, or does it depend on gear, Bloodbath still sims higher for me.

[Hastera]

I've seen quite a few top logs using Avatar over Bloodbath now. Is there a reason for this, or does it depend on gear, Bloodbath still sims higher for me.

Doesn't matter, never mattered.

People pretend it matters, and sims are worthless.

[FrothyMug]

I've been using Avatar lately to buff my ring damage and it's worked out better than bloodbath, in my case. Your results may vary.

[Artunias]

As much as I hate arms I have to admit that when the stars align with execute it makes my dick hard. Had a 943k execute during Archimonde progression tonight.

[Archimtiros]

I've been using Avatar lately to buff my ring damage and it's worked out better than bloodbath, in my case. Your results may vary.

Avatar synergizes with the ring better for a couple of reasons. Over the course of a fight however, Bloodbath is more or less equal.

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I've seen quite a few top logs using Avatar over Bloodbath now. Is there a reason for this, or does it depend on gear, Bloodbath still sims higher for me.

They are close enough together that it comes down to personal preference.

[Slate552]

I have to ask this since i find myself in a bad place because of it. How the hell do you actually do sub 20% with the class trinket?

Still pool rage then like before class trinket?
Colossus Smash like above 20% and just spend low executes?
Colossus Smash and only spend 40 rage executes?

It was something that has really bothered me since i got it. Onto Killed Mythic Tyrant last week and i feel like i lost out on alot of damage from it.