[6.0 Guide] Protection - "We still have heroic strike, don't be jealous"

[Gliff]

Ok, now I'm sad about prot warrior.

I know that SimC isnt the most accurate tool, especially about tanks, but seeing the numbers for all tanks... wow, warrior is the worst in every aspect.
DTPS: only DKs have higher dtps than warriors, and we know why
TMI: 94k? something must be wrong here, its the worst by a large margin
HPS: our weak point since forever, worse now that resolve do shit to our only absorb
DPS: doesnt matter, but we only win over DKs

In practice I feel that my prot warrior is a very solid tank, but are these numbers correct?

Don't ever, ever, EVER compare tanks by using sims. EVER.

SimC is not even reliable when using it to compare different talents or gearing strats on 1 tank. TMI, while being the only attempt to measure tank survivability, is still terrible in my opinion. But it 100% has zero credibility when it comes to comparing different tanks.

Defensively, Warriors are fine right now. Probably #1 in Mythic raids.

[Diograo]

Don't ever, ever, EVER compare tanks by using sims. EVER.

yeah, I know that, but I got tempted by those difference in numbers >.<

Defensively, Warriors are fine right now. Probably #1 in Mythic raids.

this is what I feel while I'm tanking, I was just wondering why prot warrior simc is so bad compared to others
but thank you very much
I feel better now

[Paulkariya]

All I want to do is tank heroic dungeons so I can gear my alts. I leveled my warrior first because I wanted to play glad stance, but seeing as how fury is now at the top again, I really don't feel like grinding weapons and gear to switch my spec, so I think I am going to tank on my warrior and play another toon for DPS.

This is my armory:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ariya/advanced

I have the 630 crafted shield I am using, but I guess I logged out as SMF from my last playthrough. What I am curious about is, understanding that I am the world's worst tank, is my gear good enough to just grind heroics? Also, if I am, what, if any, simple macros or rotation tips can I utilize to most efficiently tank these things?

Thanks in advance for your help

[Deleted]

TMI, while being the only attempt to measure tank survivability, is still terrible in my opinion. But it 100% has zero credibility when it comes to comparing different tanks.

TMI doesn't really measure survivability, but specifically how spiky your damage taken is, which is the key element that kills tanks, aside from failing at game mechanics. So if your TMI is good, your damage taken has low spikes and is easier and more predictable to heal. Not only that but as your TMI improves, and it naturally transitions into improved DTPS.

So for what it is designed to do, it does the job just fine.

All I want to do is tank heroic dungeons so I can gear my alts. I leveled my warrior first because I wanted to play glad stance, but seeing as how fury is now at the top again, I really don't feel like grinding weapons and gear to switch my spec, so I think I am going to tank on my warrior and play another toon for DPS.

This is my armory:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ariya/advanced

I have the 630 crafted shield I am using, but I guess I logged out as SMF from my last playthrough. What I am curious about is, understanding that I am the world's worst tank, is my gear good enough to just grind heroics? Also, if I am, what, if any, simple macros or rotation tips can I utilize to most efficiently tank these things?

Thanks in advance for your help

I cannot really say much about your armory since you have your fury spec on, or at least was when I looked at it. But lets put it this way, if you have geared sensibly for tanking stats, then yes, you can reliably run 5-man heroics. I started as soon as LFG let me and I was in less than optimal gear. The way you play will have a much bigger impact than what gear you have.

There are two simple guides on the OP that explains the general rotation and use of basic abilities. So I won't go through them here. If you feel you are struggling, look at your tool kit and check what you are not using effectively.

Are you spell reflecting, interrupting, both with pummel and intimidating shout? Are you dodging avoidable damage? Good examples are the ogre enforces in slag mines; I forget what the ability is called but there is a small dust effect on the ground before they make their big hits, which you can just side step. There are a lot of such effects all over the 5mans and knowing where they are and how to counter them goes a long way to making you a better tank.

For 5man content, I would also suggest taking shockwave; the aoe stun is absolutely invaluable, as both an interrupt and a mitigating cd. It also lets you control a lot of mobs and adds, like the summoners in blackrock spire. E.g. on the third boss, you will get a wave of two summoners, and shockwave lets you stun them both mid cast.

[Gliff]

TMI doesn't really measure survivability, but specifically how spiky your damage taken is, which is the key element that kills tanks, aside from failing at game mechanics. So if your TMI is good, your damage taken has low spikes and is easier and more predictable to heal. Not only that but as your TMI improves, and it naturally transitions into improved DTPS.

So for what it is designed to do, it does the job just fine.

I'm aware of what it measures. It attempts to measures how easy the tank is to heal. It is frequently wrong because APLs are almost impossible to design for tanks.

DPS APL are built on rules. These series of actions will produce more damage with these many targets and these procs then any other series of actions. It is up to the APL devs to produce the best possible one. Tanks have a ton of other things that come into the equation that changes what the best series of actions will be. It is impossible to have a perfect APL for tanks.

[idefiler6]

Off topic, one of our mods is literally Satan.

[Gliff]

Off topic, one of our mods is literally Satan.

Dude have you heard his accent? Was it ever in question?

[CollisionTD]

Don't ever, ever, EVER compare tanks by using sims. EVER.

SimC is not even reliable when using it to compare different talents or gearing strats on 1 tank. TMI, while being the only attempt to measure tank survivability, is still terrible in my opinion. But it 100% has zero credibility when it comes to comparing different tanks.

Defensively, Warriors are fine right now. Probably #1 in Mythic raids.

#1 in mythic raids? What are you smoking? Tell that to Brackenspore where we had to unload every external on our warrior, while the monk just danced around not giving a crap.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

Sejta went Warrior.
Sco stayed Warrior.
They both had Paladins and apparently a Blood DK on Mar'gok.
I think they'd be playing monk if monk was better. I dunno.

[Strafir]

Long shot, but does someone have any tips on how to manage on mythic butcher? Staying alive seems okay after you figure out how to rotate cooldowns, but it's so brutal to lose to a prot paladin in damage by more than 15k dps (37k vs 22k) on a fight where class output matters so much.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[Zipetor]

Can anyone give justification for gemming for mastery? I see a lot of top warriors doing it. I've played around a bunch in simcraft and everything I see shows crit > mastery for tmi, dtps, and dps. Everyone I've asked just says gem Mastery for defensive and Crit for offensive without any evidence that this is the case.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

Can anyone give justification for gemming for mastery? I see a lot of top warriors doing it. I've played around a bunch in simcraft and everything I see shows crit > mastery for tmi, dtps, and dps. Everyone I've asked just says gem Mastery for defensive and Crit for offensive without any evidence that this is the case.

If you're tanking half the time, like on most fights. Your block uptime should be really good. Mastery give you increased crit block chance. And smooths incoming damage, making it easier to heal.

Esp at a Mythic level. You will be getting hit so hard a string of non-dodge/parries can be too much, whereas blocking everything on the way in is preferred.

[Gliff]

#1 in mythic raids? What are you smoking? Tell that to Brackenspore where we had to unload every external on our warrior, while the monk just danced around not giving a crap.

It isn't a mystery why they get wrecked on Brackenspore compared to monks, who are by far the best tank for that fight. Overall they are #1 IMO. There isn't much unblockable damage that is really dangerous. At the very least they are one of the best.

[CollisionTD]

It isn't a mystery why they get wrecked on Brackenspore compared to monks, who are by far the best tank for that fight. Overall they are #1 IMO. There isn't much unblockable damage that is really dangerous. At the very least they are one of the best.

I wouldn't argue one of the better options, just not #1.

[Gliff]

I wouldn't argue one of the better options, just not #1.

Who do you think is #1 in terms of pure defensive?

[Warriorsarri]

Sejta went Warrior.
Sco stayed Warrior.
They both had Paladins and apparently a Blood DK on Mar'gok.
I think they'd be playing monk if monk was better. I dunno.

They went Prot warrior because Prot warriors are OP on Imperator Mar'gok. The ability to completely negate a big part of the fight with leap is quite strong + Block is very strong when tanking 10-30 adds.

[Deleted]

It is accurate enough for what it designed for, one of which is not comparing different classes with each other. You can compare two characters of the same class but SimC is not a tool meant to compare class balance, and the devs themselves have said as much.

This. SimC should be used ideally for stat weights and comparisons internally for a class. Even this should be taken with a pinch of salt as you are never going to follow the defined rotation with 100% accuracy and you need to do some appropriate tweaking to the rotations as well

[Deleted]

If you're tanking half the time, like on most fights. Your block uptime should be really good. Mastery give you increased crit block chance. And smooths incoming damage, making it easier to heal.

Esp at a Mythic level. You will be getting hit so hard a string of non-dodge/parries can be too much, whereas blocking everything on the way in is preferred.

Maybe DR has dragged parry down at mythic ilvls, but for my 640 toon crit provides higher CTC than mastery.

[Deleted]

I'm aware of what it measures. It attempts to measures how easy the tank is to heal. It is frequently wrong because APLs are almost impossible to design for tanks.

DPS APL are built on rules. These series of actions will produce more damage with these many targets and these procs then any other series of actions. It is up to the APL devs to produce the best possible one. Tanks have a ton of other things that come into the equation that changes what the best series of actions will be. It is impossible to have a perfect APL for tanks.

Sure, I didn't say it was perfect but all simulations are just that, approximations. It should never be taken as an absolute value, and, especially for tanks, something as simple as play style can throw it off, which is why you can actually affect the way SimC calculates a particular encounter.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe DR has dragged parry down at mythic ilvls, but for my 640 toon crit provides higher CTC than mastery.

Would be interesting to see some actual data on this topic, because I was under the impression as well that gearing mastery / vers over crit produces more smooth out damage taken, while higher crit gives higher DTPS.

[Deleted]

Would be interesting to see some actual data on this topic, because I was under the impression as well that gearing mastery / vers over crit produces more smooth out damage taken, while higher crit gives higher DTPS.

Parry and dodge are the strongest in the beginning of xpacs when DR is low. Mastery will definitely provide higher CTC than crit at higher ilvls.