[6.0 Guide] Protection - "We still have heroic strike, don't be jealous"

[Kixx-Kevoh]

Regarding the tank incoming damage for him - They were messages I received from other members since he is the first to die. So I wanted to check if it was a tanking issue first before a healing issue. I thank you for the response stating that his CD usage and shield block uptime have been immaculate.

[Deleted]

Regarding the tank incoming damage for him - They were messages I received from other members since he is the first to die. So I wanted to check if it was a tanking issue first before a healing issue. I thank you for the response stating that his CD usage and shield block uptime have been immaculate.

Get an addon called DeathNote, I know blizzard has some ingame death log thingy now but I stick with this addon since afaik blizzards thingy doesnt show healing. If he's not topped for let's say 6-8 seconds it's likely a healing problem. If he spikes hard it might be mitigation and you can ask him about it. Posting here to analyse his logs to see 'what is he doing wrong' is not that easy. Tanking isn't just about keeping mitigation up as much as possible, it's about keeping it up at the RIGHT times.... to smoothen the spikes.

It's way easier as a RL to simply look at things like deathnote and conclude that for the smash he died from he wasnt topped... Or that during the... falling shit in Phase 1 he didnt have an external running (on heroic at least I always ask for one simply to smoothen some of the damage I take).

[Toroq]

It's perhaps not overly relevant, but as far as I can tell he was only the 'first to die' on 2 attempts on Blackhand? Wipe 5 and wipe 8 to be exact.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...04&type=deaths

[Novaflare]

It's perhaps not overly relevant, but as far as I can tell he was only the 'first to die' on 2 attempts on Blackhand? Wipe 5 and wipe 8 to be exact.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...04&type=deaths

That sorta complaint is pretty typical I would think from people who are only half-paying attention in fights. You don't really notice when dps die, it's entirely possible that a claim like that really means 'He is always the first tank to die'. Then you compare the two tank's death logs and you notice not even that is true, but you refine the premise even more to 'He is always the first tank to die early'. Then you finally have something more than likely resembling the truth, as demonstrated by the logs(check them if you want).

So now we know he is the first tank to die early in the fight. So he's bad, right? No, can't come to that conclusion yet, as Odeanathus eloquently put it above.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...rce=15&fight=5 - First early death, @ 3:00, the only meaningful healing he received was what looks like 1 PW:S over 7.5 seconds. Second death a minute later is to the same thing over a longer period.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...rce=15&fight=8 - Second early death, :23 - takes a 500k shattering smash to the face. Not familiar enough with the fight to comment on this death - could be a CD issue, could be mechanic was being handled wrong by the raid. Judging by other attempts he uses Shield Wall here normally so this is likely just a fuck-up. Happens.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ce=15&fight=13 - 2:54 - Received 38,000 healing over 9 seconds while tanking Blackhand.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ce=15&fight=14 - 3:05 - Dead over 29.1 seconds - 1.7 mil damage received, 1.2 mil healed. Looking at his shield block usage during this period vs his rage, the blame could fall either way. There's a ~20 second period here where he doesn't use block at all and is rage capped(which you can see here: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...false%24132404). The green lines are shield block. However, your healers had two external CDs available and didn't use either(in the case of pain suppression, it wasn't used at all so I know it isn't needed for something else) which could have stabilized him. I don't know anything about Impale and whether or not he should have it so I won't comment on that.

These are the low % fights, but the higher % ones play out the same way for the most part.

If it's your healers that are complaining to you about it, I think you should tell them to take some share of the responsibility here personally. Feel free to weigh in on it as well though if I'm wrong.

Edit: Your warrior tank didn't use a single health pot/stone the whole night though and that is on him.

[Deliverer]

It doesn't work at 100 and soaking slices is not hard.

I was just wondering since I kept the trinket in my bags in case it could be of any use again since the on use effect is unique. It doesn't say anywhere that it is not working at 100 unlike the other soo trinkets.

[Deleted]

I was just wondering since I kept the trinket in my bags in case it could be of any use again since the on use effect is unique. It doesn't say anywhere that it is not working at 100 unlike the other soo trinkets.

Should be easy enough to test no? Find any encounter that has AOE, equip it, use it and tell us the results?

[Deleted]

Good Morning,

I am posting here to get some information in order to better help my team develop. I know there is a "Fix my DPS" thread, but didn't see any "Fix my Tanking" threads. Thank you though for your help in advance.

Problem: My current Prot Warrior seems to be taking excessive amounts of damage on certain fights. We are trying to find out if he is using Shield Block properly and how well his cooldown management is overall. I am clueless when it comes to Warrior tanks unfortunately.

Aside from some valid points recently pointed out, I'd say that a few mentionable things would be:

- Shield Barrier doesn't seem to be a part of his defensive mitigation. In 27 tries he has used it 21 times. Highly ranked players (tank survivability) use it ≈15-20 times in one Blackhand try.
- He uses Devastate to frequently, harming his rage gain (as he also wastes nearly 6% of his rage. In your kill he wasted 10%)
- He has a low uptime on Revenge.
- He never uses Berserker Rage.

[Kaluna]

Hello warriors!
I've searched with the research tool on this forum but I'm not satisfied with what I found. So here I go.

I'd like to how exactly how block and critical blocks work.
What I know is if I'm getting hit, and I don't parry, dodge I will either block and take the full hit. If I block it's 30% damage reduction and 60% for a critical one. But how do I know the chance the block has to be critical ? If my armory says "increase your chance to block by 5% and your chance to critical block by 15%". It's 15% more from what ?

I'm asking that because I wonder how good can be a warrior prot on Dash duty during the Iron Maidens encounter.
Thank you for your future insights, and have a nice day.

[HockeyVG]

Hello warriors!
I've searched with the research tool on this forum but I'm not satisfied with what I found. So here I go.

I'd like to how exactly how block and critical blocks work.
What I know is if I'm getting hit, and I don't parry, dodge I will either block and take the full hit. If I block it's 30% damage reduction and 60% for a critical one. But how do I know the chance the block has to be critical ? If my armory says "increase your chance to block by 5% and your chance to critical block by 15%". It's 15% more from what ?

I'm asking that because I wonder how good can be a warrior prot on Dash duty during the Iron Maidens encounter.
Thank you for your future insights, and have a nice day.

It increases the chance for that block to roll critical. You're correct in that if you don't parry and dodge, then you either block or take a full hit. If it's determined you block, then you have a chance to critical block, based on that percent chance.

It's especially helpful during shield block windows, since every hit that is not dodged or parried will automatically be a block, and the normal hit is thrown off the table. All of these blocks now have a chance to be a critical block, moreso the higher chance you have from mastery.

[warbean]

Hello warriors!
I've searched with the research tool on this forum but I'm not satisfied with what I found. So here I go.

I'd like to how exactly how block and critical blocks work.
What I know is if I'm getting hit, and I don't parry, dodge I will either block and take the full hit. If I block it's 30% damage reduction and 60% for a critical one. But how do I know the chance the block has to be critical ? If my armory says "increase your chance to block by 5% and your chance to critical block by 15%". It's 15% more from what ?

I'm asking that because I wonder how good can be a warrior prot on Dash duty during the Iron Maidens encounter.
Thank you for your future insights, and have a nice day.

Looks like the poster is asking what the base chance to block and critical block are, before the boost from mastery. I have wondered this myself. Does anyone know?

[HockeyVG]

Looks like the poster is asking what the base chance to block and critical block are, before the boost from mastery. I have wondered this myself. Does anyone know?

From everything I can find, 12% for critical.

[booi]

Hello warriors!
I've searched with the research tool on this forum but I'm not satisfied with what I found. So here I go.

I'd like to how exactly how block and critical blocks work.
What I know is if I'm getting hit, and I don't parry, dodge I will either block and take the full hit. If I block it's 30% damage reduction and 60% for a critical one. But how do I know the chance the block has to be critical ? If my armory says "increase your chance to block by 5% and your chance to critical block by 15%". It's 15% more from what ?

I'm asking that because I wonder how good can be a warrior prot on Dash duty during the Iron Maidens encounter.
Thank you for your future insights, and have a nice day.

where m = mastery rating

• mastery% = 12 + 3m/220
• mastery AP% = 8 + m/110
• block% from mastery = 4 + m/220
• crit block% = 12 + 3m/220

or you might prefer to think of it as:

• block% from mastery = Mastery% / 3
• crit block% = Mastery%

meaning that we gain crit block three times the rate of normal block (and it isn't subject to diminishing returns)

block is subject to diminishing returns... but combined base block is from:

• 3% base block
• 10% from improved block
• 10% from bastion of defense from something? I thought it was called shield mastery, but i can't find it in our spell book anymore. but i know it exists because the math still works out.

in any case, the block percentage listed in your character sheet is post diminishing returns for a level 100 attacker...

so how do we get there:

post DR block% (lvl 100) = (3+10+10) + (1/((1/Cb)+(k/(round((128*(PRE DR BLOCK%)))/128)))))

where:
Cb = 150.3759
k = 0.956

and then you subtract 1.5% for each level difference for the attacker (4.5% for a boss)



So as an example from my toon (812 mastery):

• mastery% = 23.07%
• mastery AP% = 15.38%
• block% from mastery = 7.69%
• crit block% = 23.07%
• post DR block% level 100 = 30.63% (character sheet value)
• post DR block% level 103 = 26.13%

and as for combat table:

• roll to avoid
• if not avoided, roll to block
• if blocked, roll to crit block

edit:
if you're looking to construct a single roll combat table it looks like this (with my unhittability being 19.38% - shield block down)

• Avoids = U
• Normal Blocks = (1-U)(B)(1-C)
• Crit Blocks = (1-U)BC
• Full Melees = (1-U)(1-B)

or with the values listed above:

• Avoids = 19.38%
• Normal Blocks = 16.21%
• Crit Blocks = 4.86%
• Full Melees = 59.55%

[warbean]

where m = mastery rating

• mastery% = 12 + 3m/220
• mastery AP% = 8 + m/110
• block% from mastery = 4 + m/220
• crit block% = 12 + 3m/220

or you might prefer to think of it as:

• block% from mastery = Mastery% / 3
• crit block% = Mastery%

meaning that we gain crit block three times the rate of normal block (and it isn't subject to diminishing returns)

block is subject to diminishing returns... but combined base block is from:

• 3% base block
• 10% from improved block
• 10% from something? I thought it was called shield mastery, but i can't find it in our spell book anymore. but i know it exists because the math still works out.

in any case, the block percentage listed in your character sheet is post diminishing returns for a level 100 attacker...

so how do we get there:

post DR block% (lvl 100) = (3+10+10) + (1/((1/Cb)+(k/(round((128*(PRE DR BLOCK%)))/128)))))

where:
Cb = 150.3759
k = 0.956

and then you subtract 1.5% for each level difference for the attacker (4.5% for a boss)



So as an example from my toon (812 mastery):

• mastery% = 23.07%
• mastery AP% = 15.38%
• block% from mastery = 7.69%
• crit block% = 23.07%
• post DR block% level 100 = 30.63% (character sheet value)
• post DR block% level 103 = 26.13%

and as for combat table:

• roll to avoid
• if not avoided, roll to block
• if blocked, roll to crit block

edit:
if you're looking to construct a single roll combat table it looks like this (with my unhittability being 19.38% - shield block down)

• Avoids = U
• Normal Blocks = (1-U)(B)(1-C)
• Crit Blocks = (1-U)BC
• Full Melees = (1-U)(1-B)

or with the values listed above:

• Avoids = 19.38%
• Normal Blocks = 16.21%
• Crit Blocks = 4.86%
• Full Melees = 59.55%

Pretty amazing. This reply should be stickied for the numbers nerds.

[Erlaya]

Given those numbers some interesting points!

Mastery to reach 100% Critical Block = ~6146 (Before our mastery bonus)
Which means we would be at ~55% block

While this tier only has 4210 if perfectly BiS before trinkets/procs I imagine next tier will get us pretty close!

- - - Updated - - -

• 3% base block
• 10% from improved block
• 10% from something? I thought it was called shield mastery, but i can't find it in our spell book anymore. but i know it exists because the math still works out.

3% Base
10% from Bastion of Defense (which is innate for protection)
10% from Improved Block (the random stuff you gain from 92+)

[Deleted]

While this tier only has 4210 if perfectly BiS)

could you post that bis list please ?

[booi]

Given those numbers some interesting points!

Mastery to reach 100% Critical Block = ~6146 (Before our mastery bonus)
Which means we would be at ~55% block

While this tier only has 4210 if perfectly BiS before trinkets/procs I imagine next tier will get us pretty close!

pre raid buffs it's 5746 mastery rating on your character sheet. (5472 on gear)

Your block percentage (post diminishing returns) would be 46.81%


edit:
also, my combined secondaries are around 4200, but maybe that's what you meant - won't get near that on mastery, maybe 50% at best? 2100 rating?. as attractive as it is to remove 30% blocks from your combat table, at these DR levels you'd be much better off removing full melees with crit rating.

[Novaflare]

pre raid buffs it's 5746 mastery rating on your character sheet. (5472 on gear)

Your block percentage (post diminishing returns) would be 46.81%


edit:
also, my combined secondaries are around 4200, but maybe that's what you meant - won't get near that on mastery, maybe 50% at best? 2100 rating?. as attractive as it is to remove 30% blocks from your combat table, at these DR levels you'd be much better off removing full melees with crit rating.

We won't get near that mastery when? This tier? I mean I'm 678 ilvl(pre-buff, haven't been on yet) and I've got 1800 mastery pre-buffed.

[booi]

We won't get near that mastery when? This tier? I mean I'm 678 ilvl(pre-buff, haven't been on yet) and I've got 1800 mastery pre-buffed.

Right, won't get near 5746 mastery this tier or next tier. not sure if anyone has a function tying expected item budget to item level for a full gear set. Otherwise I can try to see what I can come up with.

[Novaflare]

Right, won't get near 5746 mastery this tier or next tier. not sure if anyone has a function tying expected item budget to item level for a full gear set. Otherwise I can try to see what I can come up with.

Ah I see what you were saying now. I thought you were saying we wouldn't likely even get to 2100 mastery which I found strange because I am at 1975 mastery now(thanks to another upgrade tonight) already and I'm not even mythic geared at all really. I agree that 100% crit block is not reachable anymore but I think everyone already kinda knew that coming into WoD. I wouldn't be surprised to see us in the low mid-60s to low 70s by the end of the expansion in full mythic though.

[booi]

Quick question regarding Simcraft on tanks, how do you guys sim your stat weights? Using TMI I get the values Vers > Mastery > Crit > Multi > Haste, and using DTPS it tells me Mastery > Crit > Vers > Haste > Multi. I'd like to know so I can put these stat weights into Askmrrobot to see where my bonus rolls should be going.

Make sure that the tmi boss you select is appropriate for your gear level. Too high and versatility will jump ahead. Too low and multi strike can pull away.