6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Noxm]

Thanks alot for the guide!

[Crithea]

I tough it was the case, so I ran a sim with plots activated and haste/mastery looks far superior to other stats.
http://i.imgur.com/SnyO4cy.png

Maybe I have done something wrong? Ran with 100k iterations.

Do a Reforge Plot for Mastery and Haste, you should see that you're right on the cusp of a breakpoint that SimC has found. In reality I wouldn't value Haste any more than Mutli for the real world issues that Haste has with tiny tiny user lag.

^ this. Reforge plots were a bit odd for me to figure out, basically, take the reforge of Mastery and Haste, 2 checkboxes on the reforge plot tab, and get ready for a long haul, turn off both stat plots and weights, and run it for ~25 or maybe even 10k iterations, it's a beast of a calc.

What you'll see is for every X Mastery you lose in, and every same X you gain of Haste, the change in your DPS (which will by like somewhere around 10 or so dps), and you'll see how it has peaks and troughs. There's a far end of the spectrum where haste takes a nosedive, but that also has more bearing on how the sim works rather than real life performance, the general rule is that after 15% haste, it's time to start focusing on other stats, but it's still ok to have, Ret stat weights are surprisingly well balanced.

[Mokal]

Hey, anyone still using clcret addon for retri paladin? What might be the new priorty list with the tier set bonuses.

[Deleted]

I used to use clcret, but i switched to Hekili about 2 month ago. It uses the Simcraft prio list, automatically checks your talent choices and even gives you a prio for AoE, depending on how many targets youre dpsing. Its highly costumizable, can give suggestions for up to the next 4 abilities to use (although i only use 2, like clcret) with extra action lists for cooldowns etc. So far the superior addon for tracking your rotation imo. You should give it a try. It even recognizes if you have tier pieces equipped.

There is a thread on mmo-champion for it, if you need any help with it. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ution-Paladins!

[Stiven]

^ this. Reforge plots were a bit odd for me to figure out, basically, take the reforge of Mastery and Haste, 2 checkboxes on the reforge plot tab, and get ready for a long haul, turn off both stat plots and weights, and run it for ~25 or maybe even 10k iterations, it's a beast of a calc.

What you'll see is for every X Mastery you lose in, and every same X you gain of Haste, the change in your DPS (which will by like somewhere around 10 or so dps), and you'll see how it has peaks and troughs. There's a far end of the spectrum where haste takes a nosedive, but that also has more bearing on how the sim works rather than real life performance, the general rule is that after 15% haste, it's time to start focusing on other stats, but it's still ok to have, Ret stat weights are surprisingly well balanced.

I also start to feel without using simcraft that Hast is kind a better, specially because of DP. Think I will go with Tier + Mastery and Haste items.

[BurningSkies2018]

How does the new Stone of Fire alchemy trinket stack up in comparison to the normal mode BRF trinkets? Not exactly a pro at changing things inside simcraft to see what my character would sim at if I replaced my tectus heroic trinket with the crafted one and whatnot.

[Xs]

How does the new Stone of Fire alchemy trinket stack up in comparison to the normal mode BRF trinkets? Not exactly a pro at changing things inside simcraft to see what my character would sim at if I replaced my tectus heroic trinket with the crafted one and whatnot.

Its pretty bad for us now, but if you want to check for yourself, to change your gear you can use:

trinket#=stone_of_fire,id=122604

Just copy your gear into the automate tab (if you import from battle.net it'll be at the bottom of the simulate tab) within the import tab, and make a second copy with that in it, and remember to replace the # with which ever trinket number you're replacing. If you want to get fancy you can give them both a "name=example".

Remember to set it to gear and set all the other baseline stuff.

[Deleted]

Its pretty bad for us now, but if you want to check for yourself, to change your gear you can use:

trinket#=stone_of_fire,id=122604

Just copy your gear into the automate tab (if you import from battle.net it'll be at the bottom of the simulate tab) within the import tab, and make a second copy with that in it, and remember to replace the # with which ever trinket number you're replacing. If you want to get fancy you can give them both a "name=example".

Remember to set it to gear and set all the other baseline stuff.

Shows it to be better than mythic vial for me o.O (Best combo is stone/horn after insignia/horn). Could anyone else run the numbers and confirm please? I've done so a billion times now and the results are the same.

Edit: The tests I did were done using mythic horn/insignia and 4/4 Stone of Fire

[BurningSkies2018]

Its pretty bad for us now, but if you want to check for yourself, to change your gear you can use:

trinket#=stone_of_fire,id=122604

Just copy your gear into the automate tab (if you import from battle.net it'll be at the bottom of the simulate tab) within the import tab, and make a second copy with that in it, and remember to replace the # with which ever trinket number you're replacing. If you want to get fancy you can give them both a "name=example".

Remember to set it to gear and set all the other baseline stuff.

Xs, thank you so much for telling me how to swap pieces in and out! You made things so much easier now.

THAT said though, I do sim higher with the 680 stone (vs. the tectus heroic trinket)

I'm no mythic raider or anything and don't have the access to the gear some folks are achieving right now, but I'd like to do the best of my abilities, with what I'm currently with.

Is anyone able to run my character through and see if they are seeing the same average as what I just did? Right now I only sim at 31.6k single target/patchwerk, and it shows over 32k with the trinket replace.

My armory is: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...istaris/simple

Thanks for the help, though, so far! It really is appreciated.

[Deleted]

How does the new Stone of Fire alchemy trinket stack up in comparison to the normal mode BRF trinkets? Not exactly a pro at changing things inside simcraft to see what my character would sim at if I replaced my tectus heroic trinket with the crafted one and whatnot.

For me stone sims better than even mythic tectus heart(300dps more), and only a bit(150dps) behind 680 horn! Vial is the best trinket for us, so i would guess those that say stone beats it didnt setup trinket usage line in sim

But stone is very good trinket, better than all from HM and for me 150dps behind 680 horn... vial > horn > insignia trinket anyway so i would say stone is better than normal horn and insignia with vial being right there with it

[Noxm]

I got now Shoulders, Legs and Chest of T17 + one essence. Which setpart should I go for, hands or head?

[Joeseidon]

I got now Shoulders, Legs and Chest of T17 + one essence. Which setpart should I go for, hands or head?

Try for helm. Gloves off hans and frans.

[belashar]

I am trying to decide between the Heroic Bottle of Infesting Spores or Stone of Fire. Not sure if this is the appropriate place, as others seem to be discussing gear and I didn't see Stone of Fire listed among the trinkets on the first page.

[Xs]

Shows it to be better than mythic vial for me o.O (Best combo is stone/horn after insignia/horn). Could anyone else run the numbers and confirm please? I've done so a billion times now and the results are the same.

Xs, thank you so much for telling me how to swap pieces in and out! You made things so much easier now.

THAT said though, I do sim higher with the 680 stone (vs. the tectus heroic trinket)

I'm no mythic raider or anything and don't have the access to the gear some folks are achieving right now, but I'd like to do the best of my abilities, with what I'm currently with.

Is anyone able to run my character through and see if they are seeing the same average as what I just did? Right now I only sim at 31.6k single target/patchwerk, and it shows over 32k with the trinket replace.

My armory is: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...istaris/simple

Thanks for the help, though, so far! It really is appreciated.

Didn't want to use your armory, since it would just replicate the results, but I did 1 up it (and probably went a bit far) to see where the trinkets really stand in relation to themselves, the talents and the tier bonuses that can change the potential power in the short space for the trinkets:

(Sorry if they're getting a bit big mods)

I stopped at going for all the ilvl variations of the raid trinkets, and just stuck to heroic BRF as a base for the tier and trinkets, with a Mythic Tectus to give it the best chance, since we've already proved it (should) be worse than the Alchy stone. The average ilvl for the tests is 679-680 with a standard 680 weapon, so it should be a very stable result give or take the few ilvl jump that scabbard makes.

http://i.imgur.com/4GslPzI.png and a bonus chart to compare normal BRF trinkets to Alchy (still heroic tier)

Edit: I also spelt scabbard wrong, derp, but it doesn't effect the tests since the scabbard in them was an import so it ignored my tiredness.

[BurningSkies2018]

Xs, you are awesome. Thank you so much for putting that together!

[Pheros]

Absolutely love it Xs. Now if I can just keep my eyes from crossing whilst trying to read it

[aokiki]

I would like to point out that with the recent buffs to PvP trinkets, the Primal Gladiator's Insignia of Victory actually sims higher for me than the 680 Alch trinket.

[Xs]

Ty guys, means a lot that you found them helpful

I would like to point out that with the recent buffs to PvP trinkets, the Primal Gladiator's Insignia of Victory actually sims higher for me than the 680 Alch trinket.

Extracted the 4 set section of my above graphs and added the PvP trinket (seriously, doing that at 10k was a go take a dump job with all of them) and although it comes very close, I don't see any reason it would sim better than the Alchemy Trinket.

Some info about the two procs

[Donalld]

is it just me or are we not scaling as good as other dps classes? when I pull 35k dps on fights like gruul or butcher it was good but now that other people have the same ilvl as me i went from being first place to 6th place on damage - I was hoping the 4piece would fix this but my dps really didn't change much (a little improvement on cleave fights)

it just seems other dps with 680 gear are pulling farther ahead now

[drtrann]

is it just me or are we not scaling as good as other dps classes? when I pull 35k dps on fights like gruul or butcher it was good but now that other people have the same ilvl as me i went from being first place to 6th place on damage - I was hoping the 4piece would fix this but my dps really didn't change much (a little improvement on cleave fights)

it just seems other dps with 680 gear are pulling farther ahead now

in my guild both ret pallies are pretty much last on the list getting over 81th percentile on every boss (typically 90th+ for ilvl) ontop of that we have gotten zero 4 sets because the tokens refuse to drop in both heroic and normal. it gets frustrating when the absolutely horrible mage we have is 4 item levels below me, and doing the same dps as me, while hes parsing below the 30th percentile and I'm parsing in the top 90th.

that said, I'm not sure how things work out eventually, maybe I'll get to that point where things balance out, but as long as our loot chances stay the same way, I'll be still in half highmaul gear until we kill mythic blackhand.