[GUIDE] Fury of Fistfire: Windwalking in [6.2]

[Hinalover]

Something I noticed testing today is that the class trinket proc can now proc the 4 piece bonus, which I don't believe it could do before.

I'll have to test that out. If so, that would make the trinket + 2-piece EXTREMELY strong. Almost broken even.

[Deleted]

Something I noticed testing today is that the class trinket proc can now proc the 4 piece bonus, which I don't believe it could do before.

Can confirm this does indeed occur now.

[Hinalover]

Can confirm this does indeed occur now.

Ok....I just had it happen. Did not use a single jab (only was justing Expel harm and Chi Brew) and basically only used FoF and Hurricane Strike (with a few BoK thrown in). Only had one Trinket proc but it procced BOTH CB:TP and CB:BoK. So yea....that makes the combo EXTREMELY potent. Had to re-build my SimC code so it may take a bit to figure out how much of an OP situation we are in.

[pandanaconda]

Btw Hinalover, about the APL - atm FoF is higher priority than RSK right? With a 40% chance of combo breaker on RSK which is huge, wouldn't one second on FoF CD be less important than 3-4 seconds of RSK CD?

With 2P doing RSK on CD will be even more important than now.

[Mefistophelis]

With the new changes on PTR, does the multistrike lose value at any point (like before) ?

[Hinalover]

With the new changes on PTR, does the multistrike lose value at any point (like before) ?

Was planning on testing that later. I have been running quite a few tests with the lower MS gear list I was using before. I am planning on updating that later today after I finish some work. I'm guessing somewhere around 60-65% Multistrike. I know when I first started working on the first draft, I had around 50-55% multistrike on gear. and that was with the 5% multistrike bonus we currently have. We could be hitting 60% with the same gear due to the buff to 15% multistrike.

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Btw Hinalover, about the APL - atm FoF is higher priority than RSK right? With a 40% chance of combo breaker on RSK which is huge, wouldn't one second on FoF CD be less important than 3-4 seconds of RSK CD?

With 2P doing RSK on CD will be even more important than now.

It's quite possible. There is already APL tags for the Tier pieces and I added Monk support for an APL tag for seeing if the trinket is equipped. So we can easily add that to the APL if needbe.

[pandanaconda]

On a sidenote, its completely useless but are you gonna try using old sets for timewalking dungeons? I know using current gear should be fine, and monk doesn't have a billion older sets to use, plus fun trinkets might scale really bad. Still, its a new chance to run my Warglaives+chiEx right?

[dcc626]

On a sidenote, its completely useless but are you gonna try using old sets for timewalking dungeons? I know using current gear should be fine, and monk doesn't have a billion older sets to use, plus fun trinkets might scale really bad. Still, its a new chance to run my Warglaives+chiEx right?

Don't forget DEathbringers will

[FayrenPickpocket]

On a sidenote, its completely useless but are you gonna try using old sets for timewalking dungeons? I know using current gear should be fine, and monk doesn't have a billion older sets to use, plus fun trinkets might scale really bad. Still, its a new chance to run my Warglaives+chiEx right?

I know trinkets like Soul Capacitor get really wonky with the scaling. I believe the level 70 version increases the damage you do in 10 seconds by 2.2% instead of the 22% at 100. So it will be good to have things to replace slots like that.

They said that things like the legendary cloaks will be able to work in timewalking because it doesn't count it being at 100 anymore.

With Windwalker's desire to have MS, I don't know if we should be going back to old gear, but I will definitely be using my warglaives and legendary cloak.

[pandanaconda]

Yep knew about the cloak and this kind of tirnket. Its sad because lots of the trinkets I'd like to play again (wanna feel that assurance of consequence) will be scaled down. Guess we'll settle down to deathbrungers will like everyone else :P

[Oranguto]

How much of a boost is the multistrike change?

[Babylonius]

How much of a boost is the multistrike change?

I can't speak in terms of DPS changes since thats all Hina, but functionally it will raise the multistrike soft cap while making us scale faster with multistrike on gear.

[pandanaconda]

Well you can do a quick approximation before hina runs sims. Right now you're probably around 40% multistrike, with the buff you'll be goind up to 44% ms approx. Its not that big of a deal, specially considering our average multistrike over the course of the fight will be something like 55% or so, and they're nerfing tiger strikes slightly on the side.
Right as the patch hits, this should be an increase of about 1.8 or 2% damage increase as compared to before de multistrike change (in full BRF gear that is), probably a bit less. As for HFC gear, I'm not sure how much this is but probably not a lot more, its actually just enough to make us wanna have multistrike on our gear, not that big of an increase.

[Hinalover]

Well you can do a quick approximation before hina runs sims. Right now you're probably around 40% multistrike, with the buff you'll be goind up to 44% ms approx. Its not that big of a deal, specially considering our average multistrike over the course of the fight will be something like 55% or so, and they're nerfing tiger strikes slightly on the side.
Right as the patch hits, this should be an increase of about 1.8 or 2% damage increase as compared to before de multistrike change (in full BRF gear that is), probably a bit less. As for HFC gear, I'm not sure how much this is but probably not a lot more, its actually just enough to make us wanna have multistrike on our gear, not that big of an increase.

Well, I ran a 100,000 iteration test (97.5% certainty), but i'm seeing 59% is the soft cap at which Versatility overtakes Multistrike. Basically I generated a gear list that stacked Multistrike to ~3500. Then started switching out enchants from Gift of Multistrike to Gift of Versatility, and Vers overtook Multistrike somewhere between 3418 (58.97% Multistrike raid buffed) and 3447 (59.39% Multistrike raid buffed) Multistrike.

Sim results (started a plot analysis but gave up during that part of the sim):
http://hinalover.altervista.org/MS_Cap.html

Keep in mind, this is dealing with a large amount of Mythic gear so don't be surprised if you don't hit that mark in Heroic gear. But this could become an issue if there is a 3rd raid tier after HFC.

[pandanaconda]

Yeah, I'm sitting at less than 2K2 multistrike in mostly full bis mythic gear, granted I have very few sockets. During early progression in mythic HFC, where we'll mostly be running heroic HFC gear, will we use malicious censer then? These changes will hit our trinkets a whole lot, as will the 4p buff in a way.

As for my calculations, I was running quick ones on how much this will impact us with current gear AND T17 4p, which is kind of a big deal actually.

[Deleted]

Well, I ran a 100,000 iteration test (97.5% certainty), but i'm seeing 59% is the soft cap at which Versatility overtakes Multistrike. Basically I generated a gear list that stacked Multistrike to ~3500. Then started switching out enchants from Gift of Multistrike to Gift of Versatility, and Vers overtook Multistrike somewhere between 3418 (58.97% Multistrike raid buffed) and 3447 (59.39% Multistrike raid buffed) Multistrike.

Sim results (started a plot analysis but gave up during that part of the sim):
http://hinalover.altervista.org/MS_Cap.html

Keep in mind, this is dealing with a large amount of Mythic gear so don't be surprised if you don't hit that mark in Heroic gear. But this could become an issue if there is a 3rd raid tier after HFC.

Oh my, the legendary ring pull is insane.
Great work, as usual. I assume this doesn't change anything for Chiexplosion, we'll still go MS cap>haste>versa, right?
Did you manage to include the class trinket + set bonus interaction into the simcraft build?

Anyways we'll probably be playing ChiExplosion for the vast majority of Hellfire fight so ... I suppose that those of us who want to optimise perfectly will have to swap enchants and sockets during the progression (from multistrike to either haste or versa)

On the other hand, I had a quick thought regarding our mastery. How much would me need to have a 100% TeB uptime? Wouldn't it be good to aim for a certain cap after we hit the multistrike cap ? It feels so weird to go for versatility as a second stat :/

[Hinalover]

Yeah, I'm sitting at less than 2K2 multistrike in mostly full bis mythic gear, granted I have very few sockets. During early progression in mythic HFC, where we'll mostly be running heroic HFC gear, will we use malicious censer then? These changes will hit our trinkets a whole lot, as will the 4p buff in a way.

As for my calculations, I was running quick ones on how much this will impact us with current gear AND T17 4p, which is kind of a big deal actually.

I'm still trying to finalize the Mythic gear before I work on BiS Heroic gear, but I suspect that at least in Heroic gear, Malicious Censure would be usable on single target. Soul Capacitor would be the more idealized trinket to pick up, but Malicious Censure is still valid for AoE fights (such as the "first boss" in HFC). I would say that picking up the WW Monk Trinket + the 2-piece would be a bigger single target boost than going straight 4-piece without. However just going the 2-piece will drop the value of haste quite a bit; down to at least the level of crit for single target. Once you start hitting 59-60 APM then the value of Haste will drop like a rock.

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Great work.
Did you manage to include the trinket + set bonus interaction into the simcraft build?

Working on that as we speak (in the middle of a sim so checking forums while I wait).

[Deleted]

I'm still trying to finalize the Mythic gear before I work on BiS Heroic gear, but I suspect that at least in Heroic gear, Malicious Censure would be usable on single target. Soul Capacitor would be the more idealized trinket to pick up, but Malicious Censure is still valid for AoE fights (such as the "first boss" in HFC). I would say that picking up the WW Monk Trinket + the 2-piece would be a bigger single target boost than going straight 4-piece without. However just going the 2-piece will drop the value of haste quite a bit; down to at least the level of crit for single target. Once you start hitting 59-60 APM then the value of Haste will drop like a rock.

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Working on that as we speak (in the middle of a sim so checking forums while I wait).

Waiting for your results I edited my last post in the meantime.

[Hinalover]

Great work, as usual. I assume this doesn't change anything for Chiexplosion, we'll still go MS cap>haste>versa, right?
Did you manage to include the class trinket + set bonus interaction into the simcraft build?

Anyways we'll probably be playing ChiExplosion for the vast majority of Hellfire fight so ... I suppose that those of us who want to optimise perfectly will have to swap enchants and sockets during the progression (from multistrike to either haste or versa)

On the other hand, I had a quick thought regarding our mastery. How much would me need to have a 100% TeB uptime? Wouldn't it be good to aim for a certain cap after we hit the multistrike cap ? It feels so weird to go for versatility as a second stat :/

a) For Chi Explosion, no it's still Haste > MS > Vers > crit even with the set bonus + trinket. The reason that Haste is valued so low for Serenity is due to the Attack Per Minute (APM). For Serenity, with the trinket and tier sets we will be pushing APM cap (59.7 APM with ~2.5% wait time). If you compare that with Hurricane Strike and Chi Explosion, you are looking at 57 APM and 54 APM respectfully. So if you look at Hurricane Strike, then Haste's value is about even with Crit. Chi Explosion as always gobbles up Haste like no tomorrow, so it's value is still quite high.

b) Yes, All of my recent testing are with the trinket interaction with the 2-piece.
Pushed June 3rd: https://code.google.com/p/simulation...ffb70f611d9e12

For the last few days (even before last night's MS change in the build) I've had the MS change hard-coded into my local build for testing reasons due to the patch note changes.

c) I personally have not looked at all of the fights in HFC so I cannot comment on which level 100 talents work best for which fight. However, according to Calligraphy, most are considered single target, so Serenity will still be quite common.

d) Over 100% I know that. I'm not sure off-hand exactly how much. For those who are un-familiar, our current Mastery CAN go over 100%. All it means is that it's a guaranteed TeB stack and the extra % goes toward a 3rd TeB.

[Deleted]

I would say add/cleave/aoe more than single targets (final bosses are all really heavy on adds to cleave/tod/make monks happy).

I don't know if anyone actually hard tested it but I have quite a hard time picking trinkets for fights that we will use Storm, Earth and Fire on.
Soul capacitor doesn't work with clones but since you do only 55% damgage to main target it feels really underwhelming, especially while running chi explosion (I get really low uptime on it with ChiExp compared to Serenity/HS idk why). This might also be the issue with legendary ring if it's going to work like that trinket.

Mirrors are really underwhelming after the stealth nerf and really hard to use properly with 20 sec duration (would be much better with 2x dmg and 10 sec duration).
So we are left with class trinket and Censer, which I am not really a fan of (I guess it gets better with the multstrike changes).

Also fun fact, currently ToD works with the Soul Capacitor so it may be worth it during single target fights to wait for the proc before using it (ofc assuming we don't waste any/still use it before boss dies).