FFXIV Brings in the Death Knights... err, Dark Knights, into the Game.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Massively's compilation of information on the new Death Dark Knight job.

[Grym]

Ah, you do know Dark Knight is in FF before Death Knight in WoW?

It was in the original FFXI, way before WoW was even released. Except, the traditional Dark Knight in FF cannot be tanks, as all their attacks involve sacrificing health in order to do damage, they just had to make it a tank because of tank shortages, sad really.

EDIT:
FF games with Dark Knight:
FF2
FF3
FF4
FF10-2
FF11 (online)
now FF14

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I know what Dark Knights are in XI, but in XIV they're very much like DKs now. What does XI being released before WoW have to do with anything by the way? The two are completely different in design, especially in the classes and jobs.

[Katchii]

I know what Dark Knights are in XI, but in XIV they're very much like DKs now. What does XI being released before WoW have to do with anything by the way? The two are completely different in design, especially in the classes and jobs

What he's saying is that if they are to be compared, Death Knights are like Dark Knights, not the other way around since Dark Knights have been a part of the Final Fantasy series since WAAAY before Blizzard implemented Death Knights.

But that's besides the point, really. Other than being Great Sword wielding knights in heavy armor, how are WoWs DKs and FFXIV Dark Knights similar? We don't have very much to go on yet for the FFXIV incarnation other than them being a tank and since they're part of the FF series there are a large number of abilities from which to draw from. I'm quite interested in how FFXIV will portray them. I wish they'd have been DPS, but eh, I think they'll be badass regardless.

[Graeham]

Bah. I really wish we'd get a heavy armour DPS class. There's a significant chunk of players in MMO's who want to swing a sword at an enemy without having to be the guy who serves as the group's tank.

[Thyranne]

Ah, you do know Dark Knight is in FF before Death Knight in WoW?

Dark Knights have been part of FF since before Warcraft I lol

[Grym]

Dark Knights have been part of FF since before Warcraft I lol

Warcraft 1, released in 1994

First FF game with Dark Knight is FF2, released in 1988

Then FF3, 1990

Then FF4 1991

So yeah there were still a few Dark Knight before Death Knight :P

[Katchii]

To clarify, Death Knights were not introduced until Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness, which wasn't released until the end of 1995.

[RohanV]

And ultimately, Lord Soth was introduced in the Dragonlance Chronicles in 1985, making him the first and archetypical death knight.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

And ultimately, Lord Soth was introduced in the Dragonlance Chronicles in 1985, making him the first and archetypical death knight.

Well, I was talking about the ‘two handed weapon wielding tank with evil magic attacks‘ deal, not som much the lore.

Anyways, I think this would be awesome coupled with the Dragoon. I've always wanted to be a lance wielding tank with magic abilties.

[Pandragon]

Ah, you do know Dark Knight is in FF before Death Knight in WoW?

It was in the original FFXI, way before WoW was even released. Except, the traditional Dark Knight in FF cannot be tanks, as all their attacks involve sacrificing health in order to do damage, they just had to make it a tank because of tank shortages, sad really.

EDIT:
FF games with Dark Knight:
FF2
FF3
FF4
FF10-2
FF11 (online)
now FF14

Actuality thats wrong. All Dark knights of FF have been very beefy and durable characters. They have always been a tank-esque class.

[Graeham]

There's been many characters throughout the various FF titles that have been durable, clad in heavy armour and kitted out with a huge weapon. That didn't make them 'tanks' in the same way as FFXIV's take on the Dark Knight/Warrior/Paladin.

I think they're rubbing a lot of players the wrong way by refusing to implement a heavy armour melee DPS class when they're very popular in other MMO's and pretty standard in most fantasy games.

[Usagi Senshi]

There's been many characters throughout the various FF titles that have been durable, clad in heavy armour and kitted out with a huge weapon. That didn't make them 'tanks' in the same way as FFXIV's take on the Dark Knight/Warrior/Paladin.

I think they're rubbing a lot of players the wrong way by refusing to implement a heavy armour melee DPS class when they're very popular in other MMO's and pretty standard in most fantasy games.

I'm not in any way pissed off that they haven't implemented such a class yet but I do find it very annoying that they have not. Its almost like they know that people want a 2-handed plate dps and are holding it hostage to get people to tank. That's fine, I'll play monk and ninja until they do.

[Eldryth]

Honestly, the logic behind the tank choice is pretty easy solid and easy to see. Dark Knight is one of those concepts that a lot of people will try no matter what the execution, and the game needs a lot more tanks to fix the DPS queues. Since FFXIV doesn't have multiple roles for a Job like WoW, that means at the very least we'll see a lot more people trying tanks. It may not be what some people are looking to play, but it likely will make things better for most DPS overall.

As for 2H sword DPS, I'm expecting Samurai to be revealed after the healing Job, possibly a ranged DPS first too since we just got another melee. The number of expansion Jobs hasn't been revealed, but I'm expecting at least 4- tank, healer, and melee and ranged DPS. (We knew from interviews that a healer and tank were coming)

[Grym]

They have always been a tank-esque class.

And with abilities like Soul Eater XD

[Graeham]

I'm not in any way pissed off that they haven't implemented such a class yet but I do find it very annoying that they have not. Its almost like they know that people want a 2-handed plate dps and are holding it hostage to get people to tank. That's fine, I'll play monk and ninja until they do.

I'll just stick with my DRG for the time being.

On a side note please tell me I wasn't the only one who wanted to side with Shiva? Maybe it's because I'm a bigger fan of morally grey over pure and righteous stuff but I couldn't help but sympathise with her.

[Sorrior]

And ultimately, Lord Soth was introduced in the Dragonlance Chronicles in 1985, making him the first and archetypical death knight.

Technicalllly you could say arthurian and thus Celtic lore was the currently known originator of a dark knight using foul magics(though not his own in such a case if i recall right)

[SodiumChloride]

Technicalllly you could say arthurian and thus Celtic lore was the currently known originator of a dark knight using foul magics(though not his own in such a case if i recall right)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackKnight

Older than print.

[Katchii]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackKnight

Older than print.

Very difficult to argue with this, a lot of the information there lines up with most of the lore surrounding both Death Knights and Dark Knights. I think though, that this discussion is more about the gameplay and abilities rather than the overall aesthetic of Dark/ Death Knights. In which case, only the incarnations of them within video games is really relevant, specifically the Final Fantasy games Dark Knights have been in because, as seen with the other classes/job introduced, SE pulls from abilities used in previous games to flesh out the classes in FFXIV.

[Sorrior]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackKnight

Older than print.

Yep what i meant LOL