Undertaker

[Anzen]

doesn't each card give it +2/+1 or something like that?

Nope it's +1/+1

[Deleted]

It's. A. One. Drop.

You are blowing your hard removal spell: on a one mana drop, like how dumb do you think that sounds?

Seriously, the longer this argument goes on the more ridiculous it becomes. First it is OP because it can be combo'd and then, despite it's obvious threat and value, it isn't even worth using removal on, despite there being ample examples of cheap ways to counter it.

- - - Updated - - -

doesn't each card give it +2/+1 or something like that?

*facepalm*

[Kelimbror]

Seriously, the longer this argument goes on the more ridiculous it becomes. First it is OP because it can be combo'd and then, despite it's obvious threat and value, it isn't even worth using removal on, despite there being ample examples of cheap ways to counter it.

Yeah...I don't get it. It's like people still haven't come to grips with the fact that deathrattle shifted the meta when Naxx was launched and still want to play decks without it or something? IDK. Death rattle and secrets are a thing people. Change your decks.

"UT is OP b/c you can buff it to zillions!"
*just use removal*
"God no, you never use removal on a 1 drop, even if it is now a 10/11 minion, that would be a waste."

[Anzen]

Seriously, the longer this argument goes on the more ridiculous it becomes. First it is OP because it can be combo'd and then, despite it's obvious threat and value, it isn't even worth using removal on, despite there being ample examples of cheap ways to counter it.

I think you misunderstood what I meant, it's worth using those spells on which is why it's a problem, why a one drop should be so potentially deadly you'd even consider Polymorph'ing it shows just how (potentially) over-budgeted this card is (can be). My biggest problem lies with the fact that if you don't draw your low cost removal (Backstab/Smite/Wrath) you have an extremely high chance of just out-right losing the game, which isn't right just based on a one drop.

I can see this card getting nerfed in the next set of fixes.

I'm putting up my inb4 here now so I can link back this post in the future ;D

"UT is OP b/c you can buff it to zillions!"
*just use removal*
"God no, you never use removal on a 1 drop, even if it is now a 10/11 minion, that would be a waste."

Read above. Being disingenuous doesn't help anyone.

[breadisfunny]

Seriously, the longer this argument goes on the more ridiculous it becomes. First it is OP because it can be combo'd and then, despite it's obvious threat and value, it isn't even worth using removal on, despite there being ample examples of cheap ways to counter it.

- - - Updated - - -


*facepalm*

what? i almost never use it. i don't like using the naxx cards very much except for haunted spiders and the nerubian egg and webspinner.

[Kelimbror]

Read above. Being disingenuous doesn't help anyone.

You confuse disingenuous with responding to someone not being able to explain themselves clearly. Putting your own fault on others doesn't help anyone, especially yourself.

[Anzen]

You confuse disingenuous with responding to someone not being able to explain themselves clearly. Putting your own fault on others doesn't help anyone, especially yourself.

*sigh* OK... I think it was blindingly obvious that someone should use Polymorph on a 10/11.

There I was thinking Half Term was next week.

[breadisfunny]

*sigh* OK... I think it was blindingly obvious that someone should use Polymorph on a 10/11.

There I was thinking Half Term was next week.

idk maybe i should wait for it turn into a 15/14. don't want to waste that polymorph.

[Anzen]

idk maybe i should wait for it turn into a 15/14. don't want to waste that polymorph.

I'll have to go spell check all my previous posts, the pedantics' will come down on me like a flock of vultures.

[breadisfunny]

I'll have to go spell check all my previous posts, the pedantics' will come down on me like a flock of vultures.

i'm confused what does that have to do with this 11/10 undertaker staring me in the face?

[Kelimbror]

*sigh* OK... I think it was blindingly obvious that someone should use Polymorph on a 10/11.

I guess sarcasm/satire isn't something you are familiar with. Suffice to say it was used as a response to an ill explained piece of inaccuracy to speak to how 'OP' UT is. Continuing the fallacy is a derivative of arg.ad.absurdum. It was clearly tongue-in-cheek. I do hope you don't waste the rest of your day getting riled up about this when you could be earth shocking UTs all day for 1 mana instead.

[Deleted]

I think you misunderstood what I meant, it's worth using those spells on which is why it's a problem, why a one drop should be so potentially deadly you'd even consider Polymorph'ing it shows just how (potentially) over-budgeted this card is (can be).

Ideally, you wouldn't use hard removal on it but if your draw just happens to screw you over and your opponent is growing a 4/5+ undertaker, it is what you must do.

My biggest problem lies with the fact that if you don't draw your low cost removal (Backstab/Smite/Wrath) you have an extremely high chance of just out-right losing the game, which isn't right just based on a one drop.

Well, for one thing, failing to deal with a good play from your opponent should lose you the game. It's kind of backwards to say that just because your opponent got the cards and you didn't, they don't deserve to win. It is the same ridiculous logic that some use to claim that the DS / IF combo is OP because if you don't draw into removal, you just lose.

Secondly, the true value of the undertaker is in its tempo. Sure it lets you grow a beast of a minion but if by turn 4-5 you have yet to deal with it, you will likely lose to rest of the board that grew the beast in the first place. So it is not just a one drop that you are losing to, but tempo from a hoard of minions, a strategy that requires the undertaker, but also depends on a lot of other cogs in the machinery.

what? i almost never use it. i don't like using the naxx cards very much except for haunted spiders and the nerubian egg and webspinner.

Then why are taking part in a conversation about the balance of a card that you never use?

[breadisfunny]

Ideally, you wouldn't use hard removal on it but if your draw just happens to screw you over and your opponent is growing a 4/5+ undertaker, it is what you must do.


Well, for one thing, failing to deal with a good play from your opponent should lose you the game. It's kind of backwards to say that just because your opponent got the cards and you didn't, they don't deserve to win. It is the same ridiculous logic that some use to claim that the DS / IF combo is OP because if you don't draw into removal, you just lose.

Secondly, the true value of the undertaker is in its tempo. Sure it lets you grow a beast of a minion but if by turn 4-5 you have yet to deal with it, you will likely lose to rest of the board that grew the beast in the first place. So it is not just a one drop that you are losing to, but tempo from a hoard of minions, a strategy that requires the undertaker, but also depends on a lot of other cogs in the machinery.


Then why are taking part in a conversation about the balance of a card that you never use?

because it's an open forum. i don't need your permission to post here.

[Deleted]

because it's an open forum. i don't need your permission to post here.

So you have no clue what you're talking about but you're talking regardless? Okey, gotcha.

[Novx]

I think 1+1 for a 1/2 is fine...the problem is it's cost. If I draw Undertaker+Zombie chow turn one as a priest my opponent may as well concede because there is almost nothing they can drop before turn 4 that will stop the tempo from it.

Turn 1: Undertaken + Coin Zombie Chow
Turn 2: Kill enemy drop/heal OR play more 1-2mana DR cards
Turn 3: Harvest Golem

It really is disgusting how OP that card is for 1 mana, it should be 2 at the very least.

[Ryme]

People listing things like Polymorph, Hex, Equality and Hunters Mark as reasonable removal for a one drop to try to defend it? Classic.

It's. A. One. Drop.

You are blowing your hard removal spell: on a one mana drop, like how dumb do you think that sounds?




Hmm

If it kills your opponents early aggro in one go, it's an amazing tempo move that will win you games. You're locked into a mindset that I can understand, but it's wrong.

[HisDudeness]

I really want to play these guys who are hexing and polymorphing the undertaker lol.....You guys must really blow at this game

[Kelimbror]

I really want to play these guys who are hexing and polymorphing the undertaker lol.....You guys must really blow at this game

Ok, I was hoping that my sarcastic scenario before wasn't true...but now I guess I have to edit it to be a real statement. You made me sad. I really want to play more people who let my undertaker grow unchecked. End every game by turn 5? Yes please.

[kaiadam]

I really want to play these guys who are hexing and polymorphing the undertaker lol.....You guys must really blow at this game

You know, I'd love to do an analysis of player ranking versus likelihood of backseat balancing, but the only one with enough data to do so is Blizzard themselves.

I highly suspect that it's an inverse correlation. At least from this thread alone, all the players I know are legend rank here are arguing for moderation and no change while others who have admitted to struggling below rank 15 the reverse.

[Drikkink]

If it kills your opponents early aggro in one go, it's an amazing tempo move that will win you games. You're locked into a mindset that I can understand, but it's wrong.

Except the decks do entirely fine with all the other little shitty deathrattles running around. For instance, in my token druid deck, I run Undertakers mostly as removal bait. I don't run nearly enough deathrattles (only have creepers, hoarders and golems) for it to consistently be a problem, but if you're using a frostbolt or owl on it, that's a frostbolt or owl you can't be using on my Teachers or Druids of the Claw.

In my hunter deck, I give 0 fucks if it gets removed. Besides the fact that I have 4 other low drops in my hand in order to regain my aggro, I have Sludge Belchers and Highmanes which are just loving when you use your owl on my undertaker (which, in the end, is a 2 drop trading for a 1 drop again). If you Hex or poly it, that's even better.

- - - Updated - - -

You know, I'd love to do an analysis of player ranking versus likelihood of backseat balancing, but the only one with enough data to do so is Blizzard themselves.

I highly suspect that it's an inverse correlation. At least from this thread alone, all the players I know are legend rank here are arguing for moderation and no change while others who have admitted to struggling below rank 15 the reverse.

I'm rank 4-5 and I see nothing but huntertaker at this rank. The only variable is whether they run snakes or explosive.