Undertaker

[Solmyr13]

You don't even need to have perfect draws. As long as you play with 1 single deathrattle minion, it gets amazing value. Any more than 1 deathrattle and it starts to become absurd. And it's not like you have to really invest anything into it that you wouldn't otherwise play. You're just dropping more amazing value deathrattle minions that you'd probably have in your deck even if Undertaker didn't exist.

So what's a 2 drop deathrattle minion that you're playing consistently? I can think of Harvest Golem I see a lot or Dark Cultist for Priest as 3 drops but 2 drops are a lot more "meh". Loot Hoarder is decent for the card draw but even then; turn 1 undertaker, turn 2 loot hoarder there are answers. I'm not saying it's super easy, if it was the deck wouldn't get played.

I think the issue people have with it is when you play coin. Turn 1 Undertaker > Coin > Leper Gnome is just back breaking and not much can beat that. But there's a lot of luck that goes into that. It's like when I play my Ramp druid and I turn 1 Coin > Innervate > Yeti. Good luck with that.

[ItsXolo]

So what's a 2 drop deathrattle minion that you're playing consistently? I can think of Harvest Golem I see a lot or Dark Cultist for Priest as 3 drops but 2 drops are a lot more "meh". Loot Hoarder is decent for the card draw but even then; turn 1 undertaker, turn 2 loot hoarder there are answers. I'm not saying it's super easy, if it was the deck wouldn't get played.

I think the issue people have with it is when you play coin. Turn 1 Undertaker > Coin > Leper Gnome is just back breaking and not much can beat that. But there's a lot of luck that goes into that. It's like when I play my Ramp druid and I turn 1 Coin > Innervate > Yeti. Good luck with that.

Uhhh....nerubian egg? webspinner? haunted creeper? leper gnome? mad scientist?

These were all played before people even realize how overpowered Undertaker is.

I can't tell if you're even serious tbh.

[Deleted]

So what's a 2 drop deathrattle minion that you're playing consistently? I can think of Harvest Golem I see a lot or Dark Cultist for Priest as 3 drops but 2 drops are a lot more "meh". Loot Hoarder is decent for the card draw but even then; turn 1 undertaker, turn 2 loot hoarder there are answers. I'm not saying it's super easy, if it was the deck wouldn't get played.

I think the issue people have with it is when you play coin. Turn 1 Undertaker > Coin > Leper Gnome is just back breaking and not much can beat that. But there's a lot of luck that goes into that. It's like when I play my Ramp druid and I turn 1 Coin > Innervate > Yeti. Good luck with that.

As hunter, you play with the following deathrattles:

2xLepper Gnome
2xWebspinner
2xHaunted Creeper
2xMad Scientist
1/2x Loot Hoarders(depends)

2xSludge Belcher
2xHighmane

The hunter dream is happening a lot more then the druid dream. While Coin+Innervate+Yeti is really strong as an opening, there are counters to it and generally the hunter vs druid matchup is heavily hunter won. I actually even said that unless druids have Wild Growth in turn 2(or at least an innervate into fast ancient of lore) they have no chance against most classes, that's how far behind the class is right now.

[Kelimbror]

I actually even said that unless druids have Wild Growth in turn 2(or at least an innervate into fast ancient of lore) they have no chance against most classes, that's how far behind the class is right now.

Tell that to Kolento right before he wrecks someone.

[Solmyr13]

Uhhh....nerubian egg? webspinner? haunted creeper? leper gnome? mad scientist?

These were all played before people even realize how overpowered Undertaker is.

I can't tell if you're even serious tbh.

So webspinner is a 1 drop. Haunted Creeper is a solid card but like any deck just withstand it. What's so different than the murloc rush deck that doesn't exist anymore? People figured out how to beat it. Depending on the deck you play just run a silence or two; nothing better than playing Priest Control with 2 silences now and just turn 1 cleric > silence on the undertaker. Now I get free card draw too!

You can make any argument you want for cards being OP. The fact remains that every deck has a counter otherwise EVERYONE would run it. Period. People are just upset because it counters the ridiculous control meta. A lot of warriors are especially pissed since 90% of their deck is either an epic or legendary while this deck can be crafted by around 2k dust.

- - - Updated - - -

As hunter, you play with the following deathrattles:

2xLepper Gnome
2xWebspinner
2xHaunted Creeper
2xMad Scientist
1/2x Loot Hoarders(depends)

2xSludge Belcher
2xHighmane

The hunter dream is happening a lot more then the druid dream. While Coin+Innervate+Yeti is really strong as an opening, there are counters to it and generally the hunter vs druid matchup is heavily hunter won. I actually even said that unless druids have Wild Growth in turn 2(or at least an innervate into fast ancient of lore) they have no chance against most classes, that's how far behind the class is right now.

I'd agree to an extent; any ramp deck has a tough time against Rush. However saying you can't win without innervate or Wild Growth is far from factual. Between Swipes, Wrath's, Shade's and just hero power clear druids have a lot to contest. Especially with the 4/6 spell immune card (Sorry at work, I really can't remember the name).

[Deleted]

Tell that to Kolento right before he wrecks someone.

I mean Ramp Druid, not Kolento's version...

I'd agree to an extent; any ramp deck has a tough time against Rush. However saying you can't win without innervate or Wild Growth is far from factual. Between Swipes, Wrath's, Shade's and just hero power clear druids have a lot to contest. Especially with the 4/6 spell immune card (Sorry at work, I really can't remember the name).

I don't agree. I don't think you can win against Hunter as Ramp without WG or Innervate. The Shade(without innervate) goes down turn 3 and levels up really slowly. There's no reason to kill the 4/6 Spectral Knight unless you have it taunted(7 mana to play Spectral+Sunfury). Swipe is really good against murlocks that aren't health buffed but really not that great against current aggro+deathrattle meta.

[Solmyr13]

I mean Ramp Druid, not Kolento's version...


I don't agree. I don't think you can win against Hunter as Ramp without WG or Innervate. The Shade(without innervate) goes down turn 3 and levels up really slowly. There's no reason to kill the 4/6 Spectral Knight unless you have it taunted(7 mana to play Spectral+Sunfury). Swipe is really good against murlocks that aren't health buffed but really not that great against current aggro+deathrattle meta.

Absolutely, you make a good point but it all comes down to the cards honestly. Leper Gnome is only 3 damage vs a druid (1 armor from hero power) and again, turn 2 wrath deals with undertaker unless you have 2 one drops turn 2. We could potentially sit here all day and make different scenarios but I'll definitely agree it's an uphill struggle. But that's why I love my druid

[ItsXolo]

What's so different than the murloc rush deck that doesn't exist anymore? People figured out how to beat it.

People stopped running murloc because they realized that zoo is the same idea except 1000x stronger in every way.

The fact remains that every deck has a counter otherwise EVERYONE would run it.

HINT:
They do all run it.

[Kelimbror]

I mean Ramp Druid, not Kolento's version...

But what good is an argument saying a card is OP b/c my limited version of a deck compared to this one hero and their limited version of a deck makes me lose every time...you know? When top streamers run into the same decks on ladder they change their deck to compensate. This is what everyone should be doing.

If you keep seeing Huntertakers, don't play a ramp druid deck. for a while. Play something else. I've always thought ramp druid was gimmicky anyways. I don't like non consistent decks. It's why I don't play a heavy secret mage seriously. Sure it's fun, but mostly crap. For every turn 1 yeti you get to drop and run away with the game, you will probably have 3-5 games where you don't even get your draws to pull of anything before turn 5. Naturally you're going to get wrecked by aggro decks.

It's ok if a slow deck with bad draw gets pushed out of a meta that has shifted into heavy control and heavy tempo.

[Solmyr13]

But what good is an argument saying a card is OP b/c my limited version of a deck compared to this one hero and their limited version of a deck makes me lose every time...you know? When top streamers run into the same decks on ladder they change their deck to compensate. This is what everyone should be doing.

If you keep seeing Huntertakers, don't play a ramp druid deck. for a while. Play something else. I've always thought ramp druid was gimmicky anyways. I don't like non consistent decks. It's why I don't play a heavy secret mage seriously. Sure it's fun, but mostly crap. For every turn 1 yeti you get to drop and run away with the game, you will probably have 3-5 games where you don't even get your draws to pull of anything before turn 5. Naturally you're going to get wrecked by aggro decks.

It's ok if a slow deck with bad draw gets pushed out of a meta that has shifted into heavy control and heavy tempo.

Ramp Druid isn't a gimick though when run correctly. While innervates and Wild Growth's definitely do help out it's the combination of cards that make it strong. The 1 turn win potential (like Miracle Rogue) is definitely there but I don't feel it's anymore gimicky. Now my Rogue Mill deck, that's gimicky (and amazing, definitely recommend trying it).

[Kelimbror]

While innervates and Wild Growth's definitely do help out it's the combination of cards that make it strong.

But you have other people saying it's incredibly weak. So...which is it, right? Does this show that decks are fairly well balanced or simply that people shouldn't be talking about balance? Maybe both? In any case it's just another example of why this thread is silly.

Group A: This card/deck is OP, make my deck win against it.
Group B: This card/deck is fine, learn to play.
Now let's all spin in circles.

[Solmyr13]

But you have other people saying it's incredibly weak. So...which is it, right? Does this show that decks are fairly well balanced or simply that people shouldn't be talking about balance? Maybe both? In any case it's just another example of why this thread is silly.

Group A: This card/deck is OP, make my deck win against it.
Group B: This card/deck is fine, learn to play.
Now let's all spin in circles.

Well you have one person saying it doesn't work.

And I agree :P Hence why I said we'll agree to disagree. I can see the challenge that Ramp Druid has against any rush deck. I just don't consider it gimmick

[Kelimbror]

I just don't consider it gimmick

That was my perception of the deck's unreliability and my distaste for using those decks. In other hands I'm sure they're capable and possibly more reliable, but it rubs me the wrong way. I have no problems playing against them, so when I say gimmicky I simply mean how my perception of personally playing them feels...not that it's 'bad' other people play them.

[Solmyr13]

That was my perception of the deck's unreliability and my distaste for using those decks. In other hands I'm sure they're capable and possibly more reliable, but it rubs me the wrong way. I have no problems playing against them, so when I say gimmicky I simply mean how my perception of personally playing them feels...not that it's 'bad' other people play them.

Hey I agree with you. Little unknown secret for this thread: I Hate Huntertaker. I can't play the deck. The few times I tried I would never get the right draws. I've developed decks to deal with it specifically.

[Fleckens]

You can make any argument you want for cards being OP. The fact remains that every deck has a counter otherwise EVERYONE would run it. Period. People are just upset because it counters the ridiculous control meta. A lot of warriors are especially pissed since 90% of their deck is either an epic or legendary while this deck can be crafted by around 2k dust.

I'm sorry to say but you're completely wrong, warriors are one of the better classes for dealing with hunters due to their ability to armor up. Warriors benefit from the hunter meta as the hunter deck is quite efficient at dealing with most of the counters/tough matchups for the control warrior.

[Anzen]

I think you misunderstood what I meant, it's worth using those spells on which is why it's a problem, why a one drop should be so potentially deadly you'd even consider Polymorph'ing it shows just how (potentially) over-budgeted this card is (can be). My biggest problem lies with the fact that if you don't draw your low cost removal (Backstab/Smite/Wrath) you have an extremely high chance of just out-right losing the game, which isn't right just based on a one drop.

I can see this card getting nerfed in the next set of fixes.

I'm putting up my inb4 here now so I can link back this post in the future ;D

Since I took an extreme bashing in this thread, thought I'd update it with this:

After the release of Goblins vs Gnomes, we kept an eye on the state of game balance as more matches were played with the new cards we introduced to Hearthstone. After careful consideration we have decided to make a balance change to the card Undertaker.

The following balance change will be made in an upcoming patch:

Undertaker now reads: Whenever you summon a minion with Deathrattle, gain +1 Attack.

Undertaker was frustrating to play against. It often gained both Attack and Health stats significantly above those of other inexpensive minions very early in the game. With this change, we expect Undertaker will still be better than other 1-Mana minions when played in a deck with a Deathrattle theme, but more likely to die in combat against other minions.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/...ic/15700587539

[Kelimbror]

*snip*

It really won't change any of the problems with the meta as Hunter and Warlocks will still use similar minions except they'll likely move on to mech synergy or find a way to reliably exploit murlocs(lol). If it's not one thing, it's another. UT was never a problem, regardless of what their decision was so I'm not sure why you think this is validating as their reasoning 'it was frustrating' is rather poor.

Facing any cancer deck is 'frustrating' whether they play UT or not. They either get all the low drops (with like a 75% chance to roll you b/c of their deck comp) and they win or they have the worst draw ever and you win. I still haven't had a game since Naxx initially came out where an Undertaker was the cause for my defeat and not just piling on the punishment to an already unstoppable round of aggression.

[Deleted]

I'm kinda sad about the upcoming Undertaker nerf. Sad that it's being nerfed at all, and sad that this is road that Blizzard feels is appropriate to nerf the card. The health bonus to the Undertaker has determined a very small minority of my losses.
When people complain about Undertaker it's usually in relation to playing against Zoolocks and Hunters, and the reason people throw down their Frostbolts, Fiery War Axes and Earth Shocks as quick as they can is because the damage bonus from the Undertaker on top of all the rest of those decks aggressive damage can be the game. That damage is still coming to you. You will still need your round two removal to prevent it. All this nerf means is the Undertaker, without that removal in hand, can trade for a 3 or 4 drop with luck; a trade you can be damn sure that your opponent will leave to you to make.
I suppose Control Warriors might be most happy with this as with turn 2 Armorsmith out it allows for a turn 3 Shield Slam or Cruel Taskmaster, giving them slightly more options , but it's not as if they needed more options at dealing with the meta.
Undertaker won't be going anywhere and Zoo and Hunters will still be wrecking the faces that they already wreck now.

[McNeil]

I don't think its OP but I'm kinda tired of see'ing it in almost every game.

2 months later I'm still tired of see'ing it, but I doubt that people will stop running it now with the nerf. Undertaker can become quite a pain if you can't kill it fast enough, but I haven't seen these cases lately as my decks are made against early rush. Even a simple silence is good enough.

I would've liked to see them nerfing Mech Warper to a 2/2 aswell, imo its worse than Undertaker ever was.

[Deleted]

Honestly I think it should have just been made a 1/1. But then, at least this will still allow the metagame to shift a little bit. Undertaker might still be viable in decks, or it could open up the slot for new cards to find their way into decks.