[Resto] Druid Guide & Discussion (6.0.3)

[nightfalls]

candle is 212 spirit, no need to go into exact amounts based on #times used.

Yeah, I think trying to do so (and with proc trinkets) is basically necessary overcomplication. Even static spirit, if you are DPS'ing for the first 15-30 seconds, is not going to give you the best theoretic return. At the end, it's probably enough just to look at the average return.

[emni]

Isn't hymn considerably weaker than tq?

The biggest advantage Tranq has is that it can be paired with HoTW or ToL to make the heal massive, while holy priests don't really have a spell like that (Power Infusion only makes the Hymn faster, not hit for more).

[Deleted]

So what's up with mythic BH and resto druid?

[MegaVolti]

The biggest advantage Tranq has is that it can be paired with HoTW or ToL to make the heal massive, while holy priests don't really have a spell like that (Power Infusion only makes the Hymn faster, not hit for more).

Hymn still has the +10% healing increase which makes it much more valuable than what is seen on the meters. Add 10% of all healing all other raid members do for a short time after Hymn was channeled and attribute that to the Priest and suddenly Hymn looks much stronger.

[emni]

Hymn still has the +10% healing increase which makes it much more valuable than what is seen on the meters. Add 10% of all healing all other raid members do for a short time after Hymn was channeled and attribute that to the Priest and suddenly Hymn looks much stronger.

I'd argue that you are overestimating how much that 10% contributes to other healer's overall healing. It lasts only 8 seconds (but probably less factoring in haste) of 10% healing increase, during which time your other healers probably aren't using their big CDs (as most fights require that they are spread around).

In effect, the 10% healing increase amounts to very little even when everything is aligned perfectly for the priest. Take Kromog for example. The fight lasts around 8 minutes and in a best case scenario the priest will use the hymn 3 times, never layering it with other CDs as they are needed for other breaths. So that's 8*3 sec = 24 seconds of 10% healing increase (here we are assuming 0% haste, so being very generous), which is only 1/20th (or 5%) of the 8 minute fight. If we spread that around over the whole 8 minutes (480 seconds), it will amount to an overall 0.5% increase to healing for the whole fight... but probably much less because healers are casting their biggest CDs during a time when the hymn isn't up.

[Keiyra]

@Emni

Just a correction, the healing buff lasts for 8 secs (but is refreshed on each tick) so in effect it lasts for around 14-16 secs depending on how much haste the priest has.

But otherwise the rest of the post is fine, the 10% bonus while nice; is no where near the sheer output of a Tranq or Revival.

[emni]

@Emni

Just a correction, the healing buff lasts for 8 secs (but is refreshed on each tick) so in effect it lasts for around 14-16 secs depending on how much haste the priest has.

But otherwise the rest of the post is fine, the 10% bonus while nice; is no where near the sheer output of a Tranq or Revival.

Ah thank you for the correction, I guess it shows I never actually play holy these days.

So just to correct my hypothetical scenario, the buff would then last for 48 seconds total which is 1/10 of the fight, or 1% total healing increase if normalized over the whole fight. And as mentioned previously, the realistic healing increase is actually much less than 1% as the other healers will not cast their biggest throughput CDs when the hymn is up.

[Krazyito]

So what's up with mythic BH and resto druid?

Boomkin is better? idk

[Tiberria]

So what's up with mythic BH and resto druid?

It's a combination of things I think. The biggest thing right now is that Resto Druids (along with Mistweavers) are generally bottom of the barrel in terms of practical use to a raid team on difficult Mythic encounters. Most of the fights are 4 healed, and it's a given that two of those spots are taken up by a Disc Priest and a Holy Pally. On top of that, most top guilds are using a second Holy Pally because of how completely overpowered double Beacon is. That essentially leaves 1 raid spot left for the other 4 healing specs.

The reality is, Druids are just the weakest choice right now for that throughput healing spot. While we have a lot of passive tank healing, we have inferior spot healing (really outside of NS/OOC procs being up) and we have inferior burst single target healing. Tranq is the strongest throughput cooldown. However, it isn't legions ahead of Revival or HTT on a raid with low health. On top of that, Tranq is actually really difficult to use properly on a lot of BRF fights because there is so much movement during burst healing moments (which means you need to have a Fox to use it which could be better used for more DPS somewhere else), whereas Revival and HTT can just be popped wherever you want.

The other real problem with Druids (and Monks share the same problem) is that our ability to control our AoE healing output and where it goes is fucking terrible. The reality is, the Rejuv build/Rejuv spamming playstyle just has substandard performance - especially in the typical Disc-2xHPally Mythic raid healing setup because Rejuv is just too slow and ineffective for damage patterns that demand burst. The only way for a RDruid to have anything approaching competitive throughput numbers in that healing setup and on most Mythic fights is to max out Wild Growth/SoTF usage. While this brings decent output, the WG build has the problem that the bulk of your raid healing is locked up in a spell where you have no control of who it heals. It isn't even guaranteed to heal your initial target; it could heal people at 95% HP over people at 40% HP. This lack of control is just a flat out liability in a lot of Mythic fights. Compare that to a Disc Priest who has 100% control over what targets he is PW:S spamming or a HPally who knows and controls exactly what 2-3 targets every one of his casts will heal. Even if a Druid was contributing exactly the same output as a Disc or HPally, the output would still be less valuable because it's semi-random for the most part. On top of that, Druids aren't doing the heavy lifting with tank healing, we aren't effective spot healers, all we are is basically a lot of random AoE/support type healing. You generally don't have a spot for that in most 4 healer comps. Monks have the same problem and have since MoP; the ReM/Uplift targetting is just as problematic as WG. However, they are still generally a better option than RDruids, because they have much superior mana longevity, the ability to ignore most ranged targeting mechanics and because Revival > Tranq in most practical BRF cases.

In reality, Resto Shaman are what is the optimal choice for that 4th healer/throughput healer spot, because they bring so many additional cooldown options in addition to HTT (double SLT, Ascendance, etc.) and because their mastery makes them the most effective when that throughput healing is actually needed. They also are leaps and bounds better than a RDruid or MW when it comes to burst single target/spot healing/actually saving people. If you take a Resto Shaman, there is no room left for MW/RDruid.

The reality is (and one that so many people seem to be blind to right now) is that Resto Druids are just not really in a good spot right now when it comes to Mythic raid value. Our healing output is certainly not in anything approaching a strong state right now see (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&dataset=90), we have a completely useless 4 piece that will likely continue scaling us negatively relative to other healers, and the output that we do provide is objectively less valuable than that provided by Priests/Paladins/Shaman.

[Deleted]

Well, that Russian guild killed it with two according to wowprogress. But generally I agree. It's all about wild growth healing so much that even with clunky mechanics it still brings amazing numbers. On hc bh I was really far ahead in healing in p2 with RG because of the constant dmg. (but on the mythic videos there seem to be far lass raid dmg probably due to more add clears)
Rejuv was murdered somewhere along the way.
I'm actually on mythic hans and tq is a pain in the ass.
I feel like it's the same thing everytime. disc and hpala despite all their utilities still outheal druid. This has always been a problem

[Drefan]

It's a combination of things I think. The biggest thing right now is that Resto Druids (along with Mistweavers) are generally bottom of the barrel in terms of practical use to a raid team on difficult Mythic encounters. Most of the fights are 4 healed, and it's a given that two of those spots are taken up by a Disc Priest and a Holy Pally. On top of that, most top guilds are using a second Holy Pally because of how completely overpowered double Beacon is. That essentially leaves 1 raid spot left for the other 4 healing specs.

I agree with this and thats whats showing on Blackhand and since most top tier guilds have their Resto Druids playing boomkin on that fight that leaves us with room for the other classes to step in.
However I do believe that the most skilled player is usally the best choice for the encounter, I would argue as u said, that especially for Blackhand x2 paladin + disc is optimal and I'm sure a Rshaman would do a better job than a Resto Druid healing that encounter.
But if you're short on stampeds etc. druids are always a great choice, it's more about what the raid needs.

[Skyfall]

Well, that Russian guild killed it with two according to wowprogress.

According to WoW Progress they also 5 healed it (2x druid, disc, pally, monk) so its possible one of those was playing boomkin but mains resto and logged out in resto gear/spec. Or its possible they just 5 healed it, which we may see become more common as higher gear makes the hard dps checks a little easier to beat even down one dps, I'm not sure. If youre hitting it around 695+ ilvl, you may be able to afford the extra healer, who knows.

[Sprucelee]

We are fine. The spread between healers is really marginal right now, and regardless, Holy priests are being brought to lots of fights ATM and they are supposedly "last". Stop staring at logs, if anything they show that the balance is better than it has ever been.

In terms of BH representation, as noted, it is most likely a combination of Resto Druids going balance, and Resto Shaman being particularly strong for the fight due to the current strategies.

Lots of bad assumptions are being made here about comps, such as "two Holy Paladins being required", when only 2/8 of the kills even have that comp.... If you just look at the guilds that have killed it, just a little knowledge of their roster shows it is more about the player (and class swaps/alts), than some arbitrary decision regarding class balance and "required comps". The fight is remarkably balanced for 4 healers, with quite a variation in comps being used.

[nightfalls]

Lots of bad assumptions are being made here about comps, such as "two Holy Paladins being required", when only 2/8 of the kills even have that comp....

People go on about Method using it, when 1) they used it in Highmaul when it wasn't the best comp as many would agree, and 2) their Holy Paladins are probably two of the top healers in the world - for any class - even for their raiding level. In that case, you might as well bring the player (over class).

And yeah, I agree that a lot of druids going Balance (due to it being powerful) can distort the figures. If you are cutting down to 4 healers, the druid is going to be the one with the best DPS spec by leaps and bounds - and the one that's been stacked to the point where guilds have been trying to poach them - so they would likely be the one swapping.

Both druid and paladin utility can be brought by any spec of the class, it's just that right now Balance DPS is good so you bring it, and Ret is melee so you don't.

[Snaige]

What do you guys and girls think is the optimal way to use wild mushroom during the smart stamper phase of mythic Hansgar and Franzok? I'm not sure how to approach it. On one hand, at least on the logs the healing it does is amazing and I have the mana to recast it to cover the next two plates for the smart stampers phase each time. On the other hand, seems like a waste of time when I see that high ranking druids in wol barely even touch the spell and just spam rejuw during that phase. Healing is pretty intense then, we have people sitting at 10% hp so that output is needed. We aren't dying during it ofc, but I feel like I could be more efficient. How do you handle that particular phase of the fight and mushroom?

[Arctagon]

I saw Affinity putting it between the next two stampers, which seems like an efficient way to do it.

[skmzarn]

I noticed that Wild Mushroom can actually trigger the smartstamps so I stopped putting them down inbetween stampers like I used to do. Can anyone confirm if they have seen the same thing? This was as latest as last Sunday.

[Thalur]

I noticed that Wild Mushroom can actually trigger the smartstamps so I stopped putting them down inbetween stampers like I used to do. Can anyone confirm if they have seen the same thing? This was as latest as last Sunday.

Mushroom does definitely not trigger the stampers, I put it ahead of the group all the time yesterday. Surprisingly, Shrooms always do a lot of healing on this fight for me. Yesterday, I put down 9 Shrooms (5:50 fight) and they did 16% of my healing. However, the fight generally requires pretty low healing and I don't know why we even do it with 5 healers.

During smart stampers, mostly there is no damage incoming at all, so I don't bother with Shroom. But when the body slams start, I put the Shroom between the next field and the one behind that, so that both places are covered and the whole group stands in the Shroom for two stampers.

[Drefan]

What do you guys and girls think is the optimal way to use wild mushroom during the smart stamper phase of mythic Hansgar and Franzok? I'm not sure how to approach it. On one hand, at least on the logs the healing it does is amazing and I have the mana to recast it to cover the next two plates for the smart stampers phase each time. On the other hand, seems like a waste of time when I see that high ranking druids in wol barely even touch the spell and just spam rejuw during that phase. Healing is pretty intense then, we have people sitting at 10% hp so that output is needed. We aren't dying during it ofc, but I feel like I could be more efficient. How do you handle that particular phase of the fight and mushroom?

We always stack with meele in one camp and ranged in another.

Then we usally stand on the plates inbetween the 4 moving parts, and I place my efflo there.
Added a picture to show what I mean http://images.staticjw.com/wor/7006/stand-here.jpg
You stand on the none moving plate close to four rotating belts, this is where you place your efflo.

I usally do my tranq on the part when we're stacked for efflo and are dodging stampers, I'll get a fox and just tranq.
Healing has never been a real issue, just people fucking up and getting smashed

[skmzarn]

Mushroom does definitely not trigger the stampers, I put it ahead of the group all the time yesterday. Surprisingly, Shrooms always do a lot of healing on this fight for me. Yesterday, I put down 9 Shrooms (5:50 fight) and they did 16% of my healing. However, the fight generally requires pretty low healing and I don't know why we even do it with 5 healers.

During smart stampers, mostly there is no damage incoming at all, so I don't bother with Shroom. But when the body slams start, I put the Shroom between the next field and the one behind that, so that both places are covered and the whole group stands in the Shroom for two stampers.

I tested by putting Mushroom between 4 stampers, and all of them triggered. Nobody was even close to them. Not sure if I have managed to find a bug somehow or if I was lagging horribly hard and didn't see if people actually ran on those platforms. But something seems really fishy here. I told this to a friend of mine that is also restodruid and told him to try it and he noticed it too. Will check for next kill.