[Mage] What the hell am I doing wrong as frost?

[Sundrah]

I've been playing frost for a while. Raided last night, 3 hours of disconnections due to Blizzard and their absolute garbage servers but still got 5 bosses down. End, I check my logs for The Butcher because that is the most stationary fight. I only have 19k dps. I've looked all over Warcraft Logs and seen mages of my item level do up to 23k dps. What the hell am I doing wrong? I've target dummied over absolutely every talent selection combination that these mages have and I simply cannot do any more damage. I didn't pick these talents for the lulz, I spent hours learning to use Prismatic Crystal correctly as I used Thermal Void in my Butcher log, but alas there is no improvement.

My sequence is the same as every other top mage. The only explanation I have at the moment is that those top mages received more FoF and BF procs. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips? Some of these mages even have the Mark of the Shattered Hand enchant while I have the multistrike expensive one.

[Summer]

If you posted a link to your logs it'd be much easier to answer your question?

[Sundrah]

If you posted a link to your logs it'd be much easier to answer your question?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=24

[Summer]

Well for one thing you're not potting, if I'm looking at the logs right? The mages you compared to probs double-potted Draenic Int pots :P

Frozen Orb has a 1 min cd but on a 3:33 min fight you used it only twice (or maybe one was prepull and isn't registering)?

That's from a quick look, using crystal should boost your dps a bit and it's very easy to use on this boss since he doesn't move much.

[Sundrah]

Well for one thing you're not potting, if I'm looking at the logs right? The mages you compared to probs double-potted Draenic Int pots :P

Frozen Orb has a 1 min cd but on a 3:33 min fight you used it only twice (or maybe one was prepull and isn't registering)?

That's from a quick look, using crystal should boost your dps a bit and it's very easy to use on this boss since he doesn't move much.

Yeah, I think Orb was one issue. Cheers. Pots will also be on board. However, I cannot work out why I used mirror images twice just like all the other mages and mine only did 673k whilst other mages had upwards of 900k. I concisely remember keeping Icy Veins up for the duration of the images.

Also, in my test of 10 dummy dps sessions I found Thermal Void to provide more than Prismatic Crystal. This is whilst always lancing/brain freezing/ice novaing on the crystal. Seems like there's another gap there.

[Invrlose]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=24

Ice nova > Frost bomb for single target.
You didn't even use frost bomb in your opener despite taking the talent?
You're casting frost bomb without having two charges of fof multiple times
You didn't use a potion
Bad trinkets

Here's some tips:
Butcher talents:
-Ice Nova
-Mirror Images
-Prismatic Crystal

Opener with aforementioned talents:
Mirror images before combat
Drink int pot as tank pulls
Frozen orb
Prismatic crystal directly on top of the boss. Macro trinkets and icy veins in to prismatic
Instantly use first charge of ice nova on crystal
While prismatic is up spam ice lance and BF. 2FOF> 2BF>1BF>1FOF priority. Dump second charge some time during crystal
Once crystal is down, cast frost bomb, begin casting a frost bolt and halfway through use water jet
Cast a second frost bolt and immediately ice lance so you don't waste a proc (2 frost bolts during water jet has potential for 4 fof, your max is 2)

Cooldown usage(Not in the exact order i type them, just what time you should use them at)

Pull: Icy Veins, Frozen Orb, prismatic crystal, mirror images, potion
1:30: Frozen orbs, prismatic crystal
2:00 mirror images
3:00 icy veins, frozen orb, prismatic crystal, potion
4:00: mirror images
4:30 frozen orb, prismatic crystal
6:00 mirror images, frozen orb, prismatic crystal, icy veins

[Sundrah]

^Cheers. I do follow along most of what you have given me. However, things I don't understand:
1. Why do people pick images over incanter's flow when using nova/crystal? Is it just sheer damage?
2. Trinkets. Are you saying my on use versatility one is bad? I don't see anything wrong with my int/multistrike one.

I didn't use Frost Bomb because someone accidentally pulled the boss.

[Deleted]

2. Trinkets. Are you saying my on use versatility one is bad?

thumb rule: stay away from versatility!

[Invrlose]

^Cheers. I do follow along most of what you have given me. However, things I don't understand:
1. Why do people pick images over incanter's flow when using nova/crystal? Is it just sheer damage?
2. Trinkets. Are you saying my on use versatility one is bad? I don't see anything wrong with my int/multistrike one.

I didn't use Frost Bomb because someone accidentally pulled the boss.

Mirror images just provides sheer damage.
Well not bad trinkets per say. The MS one is good, the vers one is pretty crappy

[Summer]

1. Images are so easy and still good dps. IF is not good deeps, Rune is but loses out on movement too much and haven't seen many use it even on Butcher.

2. Your trinkets are ok, just not as good as with some top mages.

Just wanted to say about the frost bomb vs ice nova thing, while I go with ice nova myself, the highest ranking mage on Butcher atm used frost bomb:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...dps&class=Mage

So it surely must be ok as well :P

[Sundrah]

thumb rule: stay away from versatility!

Mirror images just provides sheer damage.
Well not bad trinkets per say. The MS one is good, the vers one is pretty crappy

Yeah... I'm hoping that a boss will drop something to replace it. Can't afford a BoE. Copeland's Clarity is up for 200k on my server T_T

[Invrlose]

Yeah... I'm hoping that a boss will drop something to replace it. Can't afford a BoE. Copeland's Clarity is up for 200k on my server T_T

200k? That sucks, I bought my copeland's for 60k... ANd my sandman's bag I fucked up and bought it for 30k when I could have bought the individual cards for the deck for 13k :/

[Sundrah]

Does anyone have a talent guide for Imperator Mar'gok? I'm assuming frost bomb if assigned to aoe the adds, else ice nova, images and crystal as always. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Goldielocks]

How is versatility bad? Icy Veins puts it equal to crit as second priority under multistrike.

[Vynestra]

How is versatility bad? Icy Veins puts it equal to crit as second priority under multistrike.

Crits still kinda better in the long run, especially if you ever decide to switch over to fire when it becomes a little more superior at higher ilvls.

[prestilence]

Ice nova > Frost bomb for single target.
You didn't even use frost bomb in your opener despite taking the talent?
You're casting frost bomb without having two charges of fof multiple times
You didn't use a potion
Bad trinkets

Here's some tips:
Butcher talents:
-Ice Nova
-Mirror Images
-Prismatic Crystal

Opener with aforementioned talents:
Mirror images before combat
Drink int pot as tank pulls
Frozen orb
Prismatic crystal directly on top of the boss. Macro trinkets and icy veins in to prismatic
Instantly use first charge of ice nova on crystal
While prismatic is up spam ice lance and BF. 2FOF> 2BF>1BF>1FOF priority. Dump second charge some time during crystal
Once crystal is down, cast frost bomb, begin casting a frost bolt and halfway through use water jet
Cast a second frost bolt and immediately ice lance so you don't waste a proc (2 frost bolts during water jet has potential for 4 fof, your max is 2)

Cooldown usage(Not in the exact order i type them, just what time you should use them at)

Pull: Icy Veins, Frozen Orb, prismatic crystal, mirror images, potion
1:30: Frozen orbs, prismatic crystal
2:00 mirror images
3:00 icy veins, frozen orb, prismatic crystal, potion
4:00: mirror images
4:30 frozen orb, prismatic crystal
6:00 mirror images, frozen orb, prismatic crystal, icy veins

I'm curious as to how you Ice Nova and Frost bomb on the same fight?

[Mountain Called Monkey]

Crits still kinda better in the long run, especially if you ever decide to switch over to fire when it becomes a little more superior at higher ilvls.

Both stats are equal as of current ilvl. There will be setups where crit is better than vers and other setups where vers is better than crit. It really depends on the player and his/her gear and talents