Prot Pally talents

[Deleted]

Ok i just wanted to get a feel for what other people are running with as tankadins. I cant remember why i chose the talents i chose but they seem to be working ok for the time being. i was just wondering if i could get better results from different picks.

I dont seem to be having many issues as survivability goes. In most fights i am self healing for around 13-15k hps. Usually it seems people pick up sacred shield as a third, divine purpose as a fifth and either holy shield of seraph as a final. I have picked up eternal flame, holy avenger and empowered seals.

Let me just clarify what i like about these talents, but this is by no means saying its better than the others. Eternal flame is an insta heal with a nice HOT and seems to give me some amazing self heals over the space of a fight. That combined with popping holy avenger as a CD allows me constant uptime of Shield of the Righteous for 20secs+ when there is huge melee dmg being output, including increased eternal flame heals. Finally empowered seals seems to be a bit of a tricky one which requires seal switching macros but allows me for 1% self heal every 2 sec combined with 15% haste and AP. This 1% self heal seems to scale very well as you gain better gear ofc.

Is anyone else running with similar talents? Are these inferior talents currently, or is it just whatever suits your playstyle? These talents seem to be conducive to a very manic playstyle as you can having to switch seals, and self heal constantly, but i have read in some reviews that empowered seals especially has the best yield.

Let me know your current setup and what you have found to work best.

Cheers

XR

[Deleted]

Ok i just wanted to get a feel for what other people are running with as tankadins. I cant remember why i chose the talents i chose but they seem to be working ok for the time being. i was just wondering if i could get better results from different picks.

I dont seem to be having many issues as survivability goes. In most fights i am self healing for around 13-15k hps. Usually it seems people pick up sacred shield as a third, divine purpose as a fifth and either holy shield of seraph as a final. I have picked up eternal flame, holy avenger and empowered seals.

Let me just clarify what i like about these talents, but this is by no means saying its better than the others. Eternal flame is an insta heal with a nice HOT and seems to give me some amazing self heals over the space of a fight. That combined with popping holy avenger as a CD allows me constant uptime of Shield of the Righteous for 20secs+ when there is huge melee dmg being output, including increased eternal flame heals. Finally empowered seals seems to be a bit of a tricky one which requires seal switching macros but allows me for 1% self heal every 2 sec combined with 15% haste and AP. This 1% self heal seems to scale very well as you gain better gear ofc.

Is anyone else running with similar talents? Are these inferior talents currently, or is it just whatever suits your playstyle? These talents seem to be conducive to a very manic playstyle as you can having to switch seals, and self heal constantly, but i have read in some reviews that empowered seals especially has the best yield.

Let me know your current setup and what you have found to work best.

Cheers

XR

In raids I normally run Sacred Shield, SanW and Seraphim unless specific mechanics do not allow for it.

Sacred Shield and Eternal Flame have similar output to each other (edit for clarification: if you include BoG and initial heal +recent 25% buff to EF as prot). However, Sacred Shield doesn't cost any holy power to use and is an absorb, so by nature is better as you do not require to be injured to get the advantage of it.

Because I run Seraphim, using Divne Purpose for me is nearly pointless because alot of my holy power goes onto Seraphim, which doesn't proc Divne Purpose, so because of this I run SanW for the steady holy power income it gives. I also dont feel I have enough haste to run DP, unless I am using EmpS

I am not a big fan of Empowered Seals, realistically you can only keep two buffs up at once, so you normally have to sacrifice using Insight or Truth, as you will always want the buff from Rightousness. Where Insight is a gain in survival over Truth, the dps difference is pretty big and dislike having to choose between the two As such I normally pick one of the other two talents

[Deleted]

Sacred Shield and Eternal Flame have similar output to each other.

Are you sure? I understand that with WoD, Blizzard nerfed EF so much that SS now gives more output for prot:

If you look at the numbers, Sacred Shield absorbs about 3x as much damage as Eternal Flame (HoT component) produces in healing. You could literally waste 2 out of 3 absorb bubbles and Sacred Shield would still be better, since absorbs are generally preferable to heals.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post30972639

[sexybeast]

In raids I normally run Sacred Shield, SanW and Seraphim unless specific mechanics do not allow for it.

Sacred Shield and Eternal Flame have similar output to each other. However, Sacred Shield doesn't cost any holy power to use and is an absorb, so by nature is better as you do not require to be injured to get the advantage of it

Because I run Seraphim, using Divne Purpose for me is nearly pointless because alot of my holy power goes onto Seraphim, which doesn't proc Divne Purpose, so because of this I run SanW for the steady holy power income it gives. I also dont feel I have enough haste to run DP, unless I am using EmpS

I am not a big fan of Empowered Seals, realistically you can only keep two buffs up at once, so you normally have to sacrifice using Insight or Truth, as you will always want the buff from Rightousness. Where Insight is a gain in survival over Truth, the dps difference is pretty big and dislike having to choose between the two As such I normally pick one of the other two talents

You high bro? EF similar output as SS?? Dude, how wrong can you be?

Op - loads of info can be found in the Prot WoD thread (it's around 35 pages atm) is suggest bobbing on over there for some better advise

[Kazuchika]

Sacred Shield and Eternal Flame have similar output to each other.

Nope. /10 char

[Deleted]

Are you sure? I understand that with WoD, Blizzard nerfed EF so much that SS now gives more output for prot:



http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post30972639

EF also has the initial heal, you all dismiss that an just look at the HoT part which is complete arse cause it doesn't scale with Bastion of Glory anymore. Regardless I don't use EF anyway so what does it matter.

If you take away the initial heal then yeah it is terribad in every way. Not that I even care to try and argue to use EF cause SS is miles better. The way I worded that was wrong and the guys here are right to correct me

[handofdesu]

The initial heal of EF is exactly the same as a WoG heal: Thus the comparison is between the EF HoT & SS where SS blows the EF HoT out of the water.

[Kanadei]

Just wanted to add here since nobody has mentioned it yet: Holy Avenger is a good talent, perfectly reasonable as a choice to cover intense periods of damage. It might lower HP generation overall but unless you are getting so consistently nuked that missing that extra sotr every 30 seconds or so is going to be an issue you should be fine. Also fun to pop seraphim, light's hammer, holy avenger and go to town on that meter for awhile.

[Deleted]

Wow, ok this is has turned into somewhat of a pointless brawl between SS and EF. Yes SS is defo the better talent. What i am struggling with is actually the final talent. I feel like i have lost overall survivability for a CD. A very good one mind but also at the expense of being able to spam EF (now word of glory)/ Shield of the righteous. I would love to see some theory craft around the final talents (links anyone).

With empowered seals I heal for 1% every 2 secs is roughly 3.5k every 2 secs atm but will scale as gear improves. The amount it heals though doesnt make it better, but its a final talent that does not require a 5 holy power dump, thats what makes it valuable. Whereas with seraph its a 1k flat amount from seraph and requires 5 holy power which limits spamming of over dmg mitigation/self heals. As it stands i used eternal flame as a holy power dump every time i had 3 holy power and in fights i was self healing for 14k hps, whereas now its around 3-4k as i cant use word of glory as a holy power dump. I spammed shield of the righteous when melee dmg was incoming as well, now i need to make sure i have 5 HP for seraph. As mentioned i am using SS which is superior and can be used in conjunction with Word of glory, but as mentioned i have to have 5 holy power up for seraph every time it comes round i find that i can not use word of glory and Shield of the Righteous as much.

I was tanking a HC last night and a healer in my guild was saying it seemed harder to heal me overall. I am pretty sure overall i have lost a lot of surviability, but in fights with very high dmg output over a short space of time, seraph wins. I suppose in fights with sustained dmg with very little spikes empowered seals wins, with most of the current boss fights seraph is am amazing additional cooldown. Its a hard choice. Do you just try and keep seraph up as much as possible and spam it every time it is off CD?

[Mlaven]

With empowered seals I heal for 1% every 2 secs is roughly 3.5k every 2 secs atm but will scale as gear improves. The amount it heals though doesnt make it better, but its a final talent that does not require a 5 holy power dump, thats what makes it valuable. Whereas with seraph its a 1k flat amount from seraph and requires 5 holy power which limits spamming of over dmg mitigation/self heals. As it stands i used eternal flame as a holy power dump every time i had 3 holy power and in fights i was self healing for 14k hps, whereas now its around 3-4k as i cant use word of glory as a holy power dump. I spammed shield of the righteous when melee dmg was incoming as well, now i need to make sure i have 5 HP for seraph. As mentioned i am using SS which is superior and can be used in conjunction with Word of glory, but as mentioned i have to have 5 holy power up for seraph every time it comes round i find that i can not use word of glory and Shield of the Righteous as much.

I was tanking a HC last night and a healer in my guild was saying it seemed harder to heal me overall. I am pretty sure overall i have lost a lot of surviability, but in fights with very high dmg output over a short space of time, seraph wins. I suppose in fights with sustained dmg with very little spikes empowered seals wins, with most of the current boss fights seraph is am amazing additional cooldown. Its a hard choice. Do you just try and keep seraph up as much as possible and spam it every time it is off CD?

Sadly I can't post the link to the thread but google "Maintankadin and check the Forum for Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations. You will have to read through a lot of stuff but Maintankadin should answer most of the questions you have, the guys over there run extensive Sims on talents and different builds.

What I took from most of my research on what's best:

Most pallies agree that EmpS(Empowered Seals) isn't worth it. Even with perfect management of the buff it gets outperformed by Holy Shield and Seraphim in both Mitigation and Damage. Personally I either take Seraphim + Sanctified Wrath or Holy Shield + Divine Purpose. With the changes to EF to you should, as others have mentioned in this thread, use SS and also stray away from using WoG as a Holy Power dump too often. From what I understood you seemed to be using it somewhat frequent(?), correct me if I'm wrong please. It is far more advisable to use SotR to mitigate your damage rather than to try and heal it up yourself. Obviously there are mechanics, especially involving magic damage that promote the use of WoG however most of the time you'll want Bastion of Glory stacks and you only build those by using SotR.
Imho you should give the talent combos I have suggested above a try and see how it feels. To decide which to take when is mostly dependent on how heavy the damage is and you well you can work Seraphim to not get shit on in the 5 seconds before it comes off CD, because it will be the time you are the most vulnerable.

[Needonboots]

Seraphim isn't a cooldown, it's a rotational ability.

[Deleted]

I would love to see some theory craft around the final talents (links anyone).

Theck covered paladin talents on his blog Sacred Duty a while ago, although that was before the haste "buff". Have a look at that. However, do note that he's simming for top end raid gear, which is better than what most people currently wear.

...as mentioned i have to have 5 holy power up for seraph every time it comes round i find that i can not use word of glory and Shield of the Righteous as much.

Yes, with Seraphim you do use WoG and ShotR less. There's a nice thread on this forum (with youtube video) explaining the Seraphim rotation:

DivProt-Sera-2xShotR-DivProt

The point is that you get about 20% damage reduction from Seraphim (and glyphed divprot) so that is your main mitigation, not shotr. It takes a little getting used to after spamming shotr, but you are not as exposed as you think - the rotation gives you 20% DR almost continually.

If you pick HA, you can spam ShotR during Seraphim every 2 minutes, although SW allows you more reliable uptime on the rotation.

[Mlaven]

Seraphim isn't a cooldown, it's a rotational ability.

I just meant to emphasize that you have to play around its 15 second downtime, no? Use DP to bridge the gaps and pool Hp accordingly?

[Deleted]

hmmmm last nights raid went well in fact, i wasn't as squishy as i thought and i found my absorbs more than made up for the lack of uthers insite healing. Was still pulling 14k+ heals and absorbs on butcher. Also i found my dps was better for seraph. Overall i am happy with the talents i have. Not sure whether or not to switch out holy prism for lights hammer though. I kinda like getting 50K+ healing crits on 4/5 peeps around me. :S