6.2 Retribution Theorycraft & Discussion

[yeto]

as its listet togther with class tinkets and it says thay are still in testing, is there any hope thay will change it back ?

[Phyrra]

as its listet togther with class tinkets and it says thay are still in testing, is there any hope thay will change it back ?

If you're hoping for another nerf, you're probably in luck.

[Eternallord]

btw that change to EDH might nerf the use of seraphim quite a bit for us. will need a new sim to see if it still out preforms the other options by a mile. ( also hurts empowered seals a bit too because of the less haste thing like seraphim)

Would really like an answer on this.

[Solsacra]

I won't get the chance to run any numbers until about this time tomorrow. Once the hotfixes are rolled out in the morning feel free to download the repository update, or compile your own version.

Or you can override the spell data, max_stack=30 is the syntax you'll need when doing so, iirc.

[Sandraudiga]

Be curious to see how much further this pushes multistrike down when equipping both Fel trinkets, maybe mastery will be more valuable even with both now? Especially if this pushes Final Verdict more comparable to Seraphim.

[Reghame]

Be curious to see how much further this pushes multistrike down when equipping both Fel trinkets, maybe mastery will be more valuable even with both now? Especially if this pushes Final Verdict more comparable to Seraphim.

this is what im thinking too, but for seraphim you would prolly still end up going for crit at the least and multi might be slightly over mastery. but if seraphim is only so far ahead of FV in this scenario, then i would go FV and with FV mastery would be your best stat once more.

now if they nerf DC to compensate for the EDH nerf, then multistrike might die out all together and itl be mastery and FV FOR SURE for every fight in there.

[Deleted]

Slap me ass and call me a monkey uncle. EDH nerfs keep coming. I know its pretty op on warriors atm but think of us really before you know it we will be back to where we were. I have yet to have my fun with that trinket and its gonna be gone before i even get it

[Aux]

I was able to pick up LoV last night with a coin.

Should I even bother using this on AoE heavy fights? I don't want to be that guy that doesn't switch from the boss to the priority add but losing the stacks really hurt my DPS, and by the time we down said add I will lose those stacks by switching back to the boss.

Currently I am using Horn of Screaming Spirits (ilvl 700) and replaced Vial of Convulsive Shadows (ilvl 676) with LoV.

Sadly I am no SIM master but I am assuming that I should stick with LoV just because of the ilvl upgrade alone?

[Deleted]

I was able to pick up LoV last night with a coin.

Should I even bother using this on AoE heavy fights? I don't want to be that guy that doesn't switch from the boss to the priority add but losing the stacks really hurt my DPS, and by the time we down said add I will lose those stacks by switching back to the boss.

Currently I am using Horn of Screaming Spirits (ilvl 700) and replaced Vial of Convulsive Shadows (ilvl 676) with LoV.

Sadly I am no SIM master but I am assuming that I should stick with LoV just because of the ilvl upgrade alone?

You can keep your stacks by focusing the boss and cleaving onto the adds with HotR and DS unless you have to switch onto adds because that much dps is needed or they simply are not in range. In most scenarious though you should be fine just cleaving off the boss.

[Butosai]

this is what im thinking too, but for seraphim you would prolly still end up going for crit at the least and multi might be slightly over mastery. but if seraphim is only so far ahead of FV in this scenario, then i would go FV and with FV mastery would be your best stat once more.

now if they nerf DC to compensate for the EDH nerf, then multistrike might die out all together and itl be mastery and FV FOR SURE for every fight in there.

You do realize we use Seraphim for the set bonuses right? The trinket benefiting from them is just icing on the cake

[Tarkuslumina]

You do realize we use Seraphim for the set bonuses right? The trinket benefiting from them is just icing on the cake

I think you are really underselling how valuable those trinkets are to our dps. And since FV was pretty close before the trinket nerf we have to assume that it has closed the gap even further now. And especially with every fight except 2 in HFC having adds to cleave.

Side note: Thank you so much Solsacra for this and all your wonderful theorycrafting. You have inspired me to explore this game to depths I never imagined. Hit me up on Stormrage if you are ever bored !

[Deleted]

Our dps this tier literally comes from those trinkets, heck i would be surprised if LoV is alot better now

[Lumineus]

It's OK ever buddy! Is only 1st weak, we dune haven of n foe, donut ovary act!!!!

... am I doing it right?

Hey, Doubting Thomases. We got hosed. Hoooooooosed. Keep your saintly optimism to yourselves next tier.

[Deleted]

Tonight iI get to bonus roll mannoroth trinket. Only class that can keep up if I go full St is our arc mage

As part of a loot council, I felt honour bound to pass EDH to our DK as I really couldn't say whether it's definitely better for me now with various changes. I will not sleep unless it drops again next time now. I do at least have 4-set and a weapon now though.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you are really underselling how valuable those trinkets are to our dps. And since FV was pretty close before the trinket nerf we have to assume that it has closed the gap even further now. And especially with every fight except 2 in HFC having adds to cleave.
!

I think the point was that even without those trinkets, we'd mostly be using seraphim because that makes best use of the 4-set especially.

[Solsacra]

Quick and dirty sims of EDH's nerf. Since i don't have much time this won't be elaborate. The nerf didn't do much except reduce single target effectiveness slightly. We only ever really threatened to hit 50 stacks during CD's and only hovered around 30 stacks outside of that anyway. much smaller of a nerf than people realize. Still as effective with AoE applications as it was before.

Overal


Single Target


Two-Target

[Eternallord]

Quick and dirty sims of EDH's nerf. Since i don't have much time this won't be elaborate. The nerf didn't do much except reduce single target effectiveness slightly. We only ever really threatened to hit 50 stacks during CD's and only hovered around 30 stacks outside of that anyway. much smaller of a nerf than people realize. Still as effective with AoE applications as it was before.

Based on previous sims, it looks like roughly a 600-700 dps loss on single target. If that's right, then not too bad of a loss. Thank goodness.

[Sedativ]

Based on previous sims, it looks like roughly a 600-700 dps loss on single target. If that's right, then not too bad of a loss. Thank goodness.

It really shouldn't be that big of a loss. The only time I ever got up near 50 was CDs +Lust. Most of the time stopping right around 40ish. The thing is, you would only surpass 30 stacks with 5 or less seconds left. Meaning we're only losing out on extra damage on a few ticks of it. It's not as big as people are making it out to be.

[Deztru]

It really shouldn't be that big of a loss. The only time I ever got up near 50 was CDs +Lust. Most of the time stopping right around 40ish. The thing is, you would only surpass 30 stacks with 5 or less seconds left. Meaning we're only losing out on extra damage on a few ticks of it. It's not as big as people are making it out to be.

We dont have new gear with more haste and multistrike yet though. Might've become always 50 stacks later in 6.2

[drtrann]

not sure about you guys, but I was very reliably able to get up to ~44-48 stacks with nothing but a heroic peble + edh

snip

hey solsacra, just for testing purposes, how do we implement the max_stacks=30 command? I've tried to find it in the documentation, but it doesn't explicitly say how/where you are suppose to define it.

thanks

[elvor0]

Just to clarify, while still having 4pc t17, FV+DP is still the best way to go, yes? I assume so, but just want to double check given the mastery nerfs, did google-foo the thread, but it only mentions 2pc t18/t17. I also don't know if my current trinkets (M Forgemaster, H Horn) would effect this either.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Elevor/simple