How hard is it to learn Sub?

[Dracovian]

I've only ever played Assassination and I love it but Shadowcraft says I would do 1.5k DPS more if I was in Sub which made me want to learn it. My current problem is that I feel overwhelmed by everything I have to keep track of. Also I am not used to getting so many CP from criticals. Any tips?

[ymirsson]

Get a good UI setup. Weak auras is a great addon for tracking anything for example.

[Deleted]

You just have to get used to it. There's more going on so you need to practise until it's second nature and you're able to maintain it while avoiding mechanics.

[Ickthid]

Honestly, I see Sub Rogues trying to dps heroics or raids, or even PVP and they just fall short. Assassination is superior in PVP, Combat is superior in PVE. There's some small overlap, but Sub just doesn't meet the same numbers.

But I mean, if you want to play Sub more power to you. You don't need UI mods or crutches like that. Being mindful of your single and multi-target rotations is all you need, which just takes practice.

[Lesane]

Honestly, I see Sub Rogues trying to dps heroics or raids, or even PVP and they just fall short. Assassination is superior in PVP, Combat is superior in PVE. There's some small overlap, but Sub just doesn't meet the same numbers.

But I mean, if you want to play Sub more power to you. You don't need UI mods or crutches like that. Being mindful of your single and multi-target rotations is all you need, which just takes practice.

UI mods make it infinitely easier to track everything you need to track without losing too much environmental awareness.

[Artorius]

Nothing is hard in pve, you can learn to play any spec optimally in an hour or two. Pvp sub is a different story.

Not exactly, if so rankings would be determined only by fight lenght and RNG luck. Which is not the case even if these two factors are ridiculously important.

You can learn how to do something like 90% of a spec in a hour or to, the last part is a little bit tricky...

[Deleted]

Nothing is hard in pve, you can learn to play any spec optimally in an hour or two. Pvp sub is a different story.

Sure, you can learn any spec in an hour or two. But there is a big difference between knowledge and ability to put that knowledge into use, it takes practice. It's the same with music instruments. You can explain how the piano works in 5 minutes and in an hour you can go through notation and where you can find which note. But it'll take you hundreds of hours of practice before you can actually play Mozart in a way that wouldn't make him roll in his grave...

[ymirsson]

Nothing is hard in pve, you can learn to play any spec optimally in an hour or two. Pvp sub is a different story.

Nothing is hard in pvp, because most pvp players suck ass.

[celinamuna]

Nothing is hard in pvp, because you ddos your opponent.

[Deleted]

The rotation for sub is reasonably easy as long as you use tell me when or weak auras to track rupture, SnD, hemo and find weakness. On butcher I'm finishing with 20k dps and 40k burst which is what I should be doing according to simcraft, the only thing I'm struggling with is when it comes to last 2 bosses and there are a lot of things to look out for I seem to struggle which I didn't use to when playing assas or combat

[Maelstrom51]

The rotation for sub is reasonably easy as long as you use tell me when or weak auras to track rupture, SnD, hemo and find weakness. On butcher I'm finishing with 20k dps and 40k burst which is what I should be doing according to simcraft, the only thing I'm struggling with is when it comes to last 2 bosses and there are a lot of things to look out for I seem to struggle which I didn't use to when playing assas or combat

Just so you know, using Hemo is a dps loss unless you're in front of your target and have no other option, or you messed up rupture and need something to keep SV up.

In either of these cases, you generally don't care about Hemo's duration and don't need to track it.

[Nakotsu]

learn how to push hemmorage and then learn how to push eviscerate...

[Oggiva]

Just so you know, using Hemo is a dps loss unless you're in front of your target and have no other option, or you messed up rupture and need something to keep SV up.

In either of these cases, you generally don't care about Hemo's duration and don't need to track it.

You want it for the latter, not so much for the former.

[Deleted]

Just so you know, using Hemo is a dps loss unless you're in front of your target and have no other option, or you messed up rupture and need something to keep SV up.

In either of these cases, you generally don't care about Hemo's duration and don't need to track it.

With the new multistrike system and the instant ticks keeping hemo up acts as a safe barrier. It's better to have it on your bars then not at all

[Deleted]

Lollll you can't be serious

The average 2k pvp'er has enough skill to be in Paragon. PvE is so simple

We've had 2.4k rated players join us to PvE and whilst most of them have been great numbers wise it has taken them a long time to actually get used to PvE. When they first joined they were derping around all the time and standing in fire and generally not executing tactics right. This idea that a high rated PvPer would be like a duck to water to PvE is a bit of a myth.

But no doubt you're trolling anyway.

[Deleted]

You want it for the latter, not so much for the former.

especially now that frostwolf is better - im finding i have to re-rupture even before shadow dance ends on opener on some pulls.
im finding i now just pool energy and wait for HaT to proc instead of using backstab near then end of rupture, otherwise i get double multistrike proc and suddenly i have no SV

[Warstar]

Honestly, I see Sub Rogues trying to dps heroics or raids, or even PVP and they just fall short. Assassination is superior in PVP, Combat is superior in PVE. There's some small overlap, but Sub just doesn't meet the same numbers.

But I mean, if you want to play Sub more power to you. You don't need UI mods or crutches like that. Being mindful of your single and multi-target rotations is all you need, which just takes practice.

Combat is dookie single target now in pve. It's good in cleave but oddly enough sub is actually very strong in aoe situations now.

Assassination brings nothing to pvp. Aside from being the most brain dead spec in the entire game it has 1 single long duration CD that is target specific (aka not swapping) and some of the lowest dps in the game atm.

Sub brings amazing utility/burst with dance on the other hand in pvp and can lock entire teams down. The utility it brings is simply amazing and it also has some solid burst if used in that fashion too. Not to mention sub is currently our highest single target dps spec atm.

Just because in your limited view have seen a few rogues perform poorly by no means at all is this an indicator of how good sub is.

[Cranial]

I feel like assa burst in 2's is great. It just needs a bit of setup. If you can catch someone below 35% hp and their partner not having a trinket, you can go Vendetta>MFD>Env>Spam Dispatch. I find this has the potential to do some amazing burst damage. Getting them to 35% is the problem. But I've found with my poisons and rupture rolling on both targets, the sustained damage is pretty good.

[shaithis]

I feel like assa burst in 2's is great. It just needs a bit of setup. If you can catch someone below 35% hp and their partner not having a trinket, you can go Vendetta>MFD>Env>Spam Dispatch. I find this has the potential to do some amazing burst damage. Getting them to 35% is the problem. But I've found with my poisons and rupture rolling on both targets, the sustained damage is pretty good.

If you catch someone below 35% hp and their partner not having a trinket, you have won the match already, haven't you? So perhaps picking a spec based on what you do after you win is not the best strategy? Note - Vendetta will probably not be up for your scenario as Assn. wet noodle dps isn't getting anyone to 35% without it.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, I see Sub Rogues trying to dps heroics or raids, or even PVP and they just fall short. Assassination is superior in PVP, Combat is superior in PVE. There's some small overlap, but Sub just doesn't meet the same numbers.

But I mean, if you want to play Sub more power to you. You don't need UI mods or crutches like that. Being mindful of your single and multi-target rotations is all you need, which just takes practice.

This post actually makes a lot of sense if you replace "Assassination" and "Combat" with "Subt" throughout the text content. Like this:

Honestly, I see Assassination Rogues trying to dps heroics or raids, or even PVP and they just fall short. Subt is superior in PVP, Subt is superior in PVE. There's some small overlap, but Assassination just doesn't meet the same numbers.

But I mean, if you want to play Assassination more power to you. You don't need UI mods or crutches like that. You basically push two buttons, and a third one every 2 minutes, enjoi.

[AgilityTank]

You basically push two buttons, and a third one every 2 minutes, enjoi.

So, basically, you know nothing about the spec? It's far more than 2 or 3 buttons...

Also plenty of rogues are playing Assassination bc overall the 3 specs have a 1 percent diff across all fights. Sub is more convoluted and much different to maintain in a high movement environment. Combat has its encounters and actually if you wanna dice it up Asassination can pull more dps than Sub on a fight like Twin Ogrons.