What should they do with Holy Nova?

[PosPosPos]

Have fun OOMing yourself in under 60 seconds.

Its mana cost is way too high to "spam" it.

It wouldn't even have to be a smart heal, just remove the group restriction. Make it heal the same way CoH does.



Atonement needs a lot more than a "slight" buff. It needs to be healing for at least 2x its current healing in order to be useful at all. Even at 648 ilvl, my Smites are only hitting for about 5k. Whereas Heal is healing for 40-43k, without Archangel.

Blue post said that Atonement should heal for about 60% of what your normal spells heal for...in reality it's more like 15%.

It's actually even lesser than 10%. Somewhere around 7-8% is more accurate.

[Deleted]

i hate it so much... same as i hate arcane explosion

this spell needs to be removed
and stay removed.

[drivec]

pretty sure holy nova is aoe filler spell. don't really see any need to change anything about disc.

disc performs really well in raids and shouldn't be touched.

every time I see tuning changes I am super happy to not see any changes to disc or holy.

[ceddya]

Atonement needs a lot more than a "slight" buff. It needs to be healing for at least 2x its current healing in order to be useful at all. Even at 648 ilvl, my Smites are only hitting for about 5k. Whereas Heal is healing for 40-43k, without Archangel.

Blue post said that Atonement should heal for about 60% of what your normal spells heal for...in reality it's more like 15%.

I have no major issues with Atonement's current strength. I'm still using it as an Evangelism builder, and many top Disc parses are using it similarly. I actually enjoy having the freedom to use Penance defensively and not feeling compelled to generate 5 stacks of Evangelism every 30 seconds (or use AA only at 5 stacks).

The 60% statement shouldn't be taken as gospel, because the devs clearly have no idea what they're doing with Disc balance.

[anon5123]

I have no major issues with Atonement's current strength. I'm still using it as an Evangelism builder, and many top Disc parses are using it similarly.

But that's a big problem! Atonement heals for so little that it feels like a punishment to cast Smite or offensive Penance. You're only casting them to build Evangelism stacks, and if you can find time to smite that much, then you probably don't even need Archangel in the first place.

Having to waste GCDs doing almost no healing, in order to get a healing buff, just feels really broken and clunky.

I actually enjoy having the freedom to use Penance defensively and not feeling compelled to generate 5 stacks of Evangelism every 30 seconds (or use AA only at 5 stacks).

Low atonement healing = having freedom to use Penance defensively? No, Low atonement healing = forced to use Penance defensively, because Offensive heals for a fraction of Defensive.

[Well]

Have fun OOMing yourself in under 60 seconds.

Its mana cost is way too high to "spam" it.

It wouldn't even have to be a smart heal, just remove the group restriction. Make it heal the same way CoH does.

You obviously wouldn't go 100% of the time spamming PoH. This assumes intense raid dmg. Instead of targeting groups, you would simply target yourself and... spam spam spam spam. CoH is the smartest healing spell in the game after ReM.

[anon5123]

Instead of targeting groups, you would simply target yourself and... spam spam spam spam.

This applies to Chain Heal as well, but you don't see Chain Heal getting group-locked.

And making PoH group locked does not prevent you from spamming it, it just makes it more annoying to use because you need an extra addon to calculate which player in the group is the best to cast it on. And/or have the raid leader organize melee/ranged groups. No other healer needs to do that.

CoH is the smartest healing spell in the game after ReM.

It's still a "dumb" heal in that it just targets any injured player, instead of most injured.

[emni]

This applies to Chain Heal as well, but you don't see Chain Heal getting group-locked.

Yeah I don't get all these arguments against PoH being unlocked from groups. There are plenty of AoE heals in this game that are either spammable like Chain Heal or smart and doing a shit ton of healing anyway like Efflorescence from Mushroom.

Give PoH some sort of an interaction a'la "when cast on a target with PW:S does x% extra healing" and give us an interesting mechanic, for crying out loud.

[ceddya]

But that's a big problem! Atonement heals for so little that it feels like a punishment to cast Smite or offensive Penance. You're only casting them to build Evangelism stacks, and if you can find time to smite that much, then you probably don't even need Archangel in the first place.

Having to waste GCDs doing almost no healing, in order to get a healing buff, just feels really broken and clunky.

Low atonement healing = having freedom to use Penance defensively? No, Low atonement healing = forced to use Penance defensively, because Offensive heals for a fraction of Defensive.

Except it's no longer mandatory to cast that Smite to generate 5 stacks of Evangelism if there's actual damage to heal. The reason why people still do so is because most fights in Highmaul feature sufficient downtime.

Having to waste GCDs on Smite when you could be using your actual heals also felt clunky in MoP.

Also, given the choice between having to use Penance offensively or defensively, I would always choose the latter because that, at least, requires some input from the Priest.

[anon5123]

Having to waste GCDs on Smite when you could be using your actual heals also felt clunky in MoP.

Except you weren't wasting GCDs because Atonement actually healed for a decent amount. Smite was often used as a filler spell.

Also, given the choice between having to use Penance offensively or defensively, I would always choose the latter because that, at least, requires some input from the Priest.

And because offensive heals for about 1/3 of what defensive heals for.


Point is, Atonement heals for so little that I'm not even sure why it's still in the game. It doesn't do what the blue posts say it's supposed to, and as a result, Evangelism and Archangel feel clunky.

[ceddya]

Except you weren't wasting GCDs because Atonement actually healed for a decent amount. Smite was often used as a filler spell.

And because offensive heals for about 1/3 of what defensive heals for.

Point is, Atonement heals for so little that I'm not even sure why it's still in the game. It doesn't do what the blue posts say it's supposed to, and as a result, Evangelism and Archangel feel clunky.

And you aren't wasting GCDs because Smite's hidden healing via the AA buff makes up for it. Before, you absolutely had to use that Smite to generate 5 stacks of Evangelism even if your other heals were better for the situation. That seems like clunky gameplay to me. At least you have the option of going with less than 5 stacks of Evangelism/AA now.

Your second point doesn't address what I said. You certainly require more input to maximize defensive Penance, which makes using it that way feel more engaging and fun over just using one Penance/Atonement macro on CD. Still, I'm seeing more varied usage of Penance in its current state, which certainly makes it an improve over how it was in MoP.

Regardless, Atonement serves its job as an Evangelism builder very well. It won't be your core heal anymore, and I don't have an issue with it.

[Rorschachs]

Make it only do damage and work with atonement = I am a genius. Atonement has an aoe rotation now.

[anon5123]

And you aren't wasting GCDs because Smite's hidden healing via the AA buff makes up for it.

That's debatable.

And if you're finding time to smite in the first place, you probably don't need Archangel.

Before, you absolutely had to use that Smite to generate 5 stacks of Evangelism even if your other heals were better for the situation.

And it was fine because Smite actually healed for a decent amount, and you'd usually be at 5 Evan stacks long before Archangel came off CD.

I can't think of a time where I was smiting and though "oh I should be using a different heal right now"....because if I needed to use that different heal, I'd use that different heal. And mostly because AA was almost always available, seeing as Smite was used as a filler spell for general raid healing.

That seems like clunky gameplay to me. At least you have the option of going with less than 5 stacks of Evangelism/AA now.

You're...glad about being able to use Archangel less efficiently? What.

Atonement serves its job as an Evangelism builder very well.

But because it heals for jack shit, Evangelism is all it's good for, which makes it feel clunky. No other healer has to waste time casting damage spells in order to activate their healing buff.

[Noradin]

Regardless, Atonement serves its job as an Evangelism builder very well. It won't be your core heal anymore, and I don't have an issue with it.

Currently Atonement is some weird evocation spin off for disc. You use it to turn time into ressources. Wasn't that something they removed from mages because it was deemed 'outdated' and 'not fun'?

[anon5123]

Currently Atonement is some weird evocation spin off for disc. You use it to turn time into ressources. Wasn't that something they removed from mages because it was deemed 'outdated' and 'not fun'?

Yeah, pretty much. Atonement is wasting time doing almost no healing in order to get a healing buff. It just feels clunky and awkward.

I actually liked Smite being our "filler" spell, back in MoP. It was something that set Disc apart from the other healers and made it feel more unique. It was more fun than CoW+PWS spam, that's for sure.

[PosPosPos]

Except it's no longer mandatory to cast that Smite to generate 5 stacks of Evangelism if there's actual damage to heal. The reason why people still do so is because most fights in Highmaul feature sufficient downtime.

Having to waste GCDs on Smite when you could be using your actual heals also felt clunky in MoP.

Also, given the choice between having to use Penance offensively or defensively, I would always choose the latter because that, at least, requires some input from the Priest.

Except Kargath, Mythic fights don't have this "downtime" you speak of.

[ceddya]

That's debatable.

And if you're finding time to smite in the first place, you probably don't need Archangel.

And it was fine because Smite actually healed for a decent amount, and you'd usually be at 5 Evan stacks long before Archangel came off CD.

I can't think of a time where I was smiting and though "oh I should be using a different heal right now"....because if I needed to use that different heal, I'd use that different heal. And mostly because AA was almost always available, seeing as Smite was used as a filler spell for general raid healing.

You're...glad about being able to use Archangel less efficiently? What.

But because it heals for jack shit, Evangelism is all it's good for, which makes it feel clunky. No other healer has to waste time casting damage spells in order to activate their healing buff.

Do you even raid? Here's the top parse for Mythic Butcher: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&type=healing. Note the usage of BOTH defensive and offensive Penance, which is something you never saw with MoP Atonement. Note the proper usage of Atonement to build Evangelism, which debunks your claim that AA 'is not needed if you have time to Smite'.

Being compelled to use AA only at 5 stacks in MoP was constraining. If you can use AA at less than 5 stacks and still come up with a net buff, then no, it's not using it less efficiently, but it is using it more flexibily.

As for your last point, you actually have to do that less now that there is a trade-off with Atonement, so I don't get your argument. If you have to heal now, go ahead and use your raid heals while just going with whatever stacks of Evangelism/AA you have. That's actually a valid playstyle now.

- - - Updated - - -

Except Kargath, Mythic fights don't have this "downtime" you speak of.

That's blatantly wrong. Twin Ogron, Brackenspore, Tectus, Ko'ragh, Mar'gok all have frequent periods where you can weave in a couple of Smites or offensive Penances in without it being detrimental to your healing. Almost every Disc uses Solace, which means you don't actually need to spare a lot of time to get 5xEvangelism.

[PosPosPos]

That's blatantly wrong. Twin Ogron, Brackenspore, Tectus, Ko'ragh, Mar'gok all have frequent periods where you can weave in a couple of Smites or offensive Penances in without it being detrimental to your healing. Almost every Disc uses Solace, which means you don't actually need to spare a lot of time to get 5xEvangelism.

It is detrimental to your healing - but it's more detrimental to the raid if the boss doesn't die before enrage. That's the difference.

Atonement is just a side bonus to dpsing to ensure the boss actually dies on time.

Before you go off parading your unsupported theories as undeniable truth, at least do your research on why people actually cast dps spells as healers.

[ceddya]

It is detrimental to your healing - but it's more detrimental to the raid if the boss doesn't die before enrage. That's the difference.

Atonement is just a side bonus to dpsing to ensure the boss actually dies on time.

Before you go off parading your unsupported theories as undeniable truth, at least do your research on why people actually cast dps spells as healers.

Rofl, people aren't using Atonement primarily for its damage. Go look at the top parses - most of them feature Atonement usage to only support using AAx5 on CD. The only fight where a boss enrage is even an issue is Mythic Butcher, and you still don't see Disc Priests using Atonement beyond Evangelismx5, if at all. If your argument were valid, this wouldn't be the case at all.

There's also a reason why most top Disc parses still use Atonement to generate Evangelism - simply because it isn't detrimental to your healing. This post is so embarrassingly incorrect, sorry.

[PosPosPos]

Rofl, people aren't using Atonement primarily for its damage. Go look at the top parses - most of them feature Atonement usage to only support using AAx5 on CD. The only fight where a boss enrage is even an issue is Mythic Butcher, and you still don't see Disc Priests using Atonement beyond Evangelismx5. If your argument were valid, this wouldn't be the case at all.

Right, and the resto druid spamming wrath without DoC specced, holy pally spamming denounce with offensive holy shock and resto shaman doing the ele shaman rotation is for their own Archangel-esque mechanics, I am sure.

It's right there in the logs you linked as well, which is the huge irony.